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The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

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Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#411

Post by Apocryphon »

wlesieutre wrote: post #404
Apocryphon wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then don't download apps from a hypothetical secondary iOS App Store. You literally have the same option as people in this thread who say "just don't buy Apple."

I'm aware that I can avoid installing a second store and not run any software that comes from it. The issue I'm pointing out is that software that's currently available through the App Store could move exclusively to alternatives if given the option. Like that time when Epic Games said "We don't want to use the Google Play Store, so if you want to play Fortnite you have to install it from the Fortnite Installer". And…

But then, simply don't run that software. Vote with your wallet. Use a competitor that remains on the App Store. Why deprive others of the choice, in favor of a single entity in charge- a single point of failure? I thought it was a truism in tech that monocultures are a bad thing?

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#412

Post by scarface74 »

wayneftw wrote: post #372
scarface74 wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I put a product in Walmart and tell users they can get it cheaper elsewhere - in Walmart?

If you don’t put your product in Walmart is your product guaranteed to be a failure? Have you ever heard of anybody releasing a wildly successful app and it not being in the Apple app store? Are you aware that there are many many many more stores like Walmart than there are stores like the Apple app store?

If you don’t put your product in Walmart is your product guaranteed to be a failure?

Tell that to all of the low end TV manufacturers, game systems (see Sega), toy manufacturers, and back in the day musicians who went out of their way to create an edited version just for Walmart.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#413

Post by scarface74 »

d0gbread wrote: post #389
scarface74 wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right because giving the government more power can’t possibly have negative consequences. Did you watch the congressional testimony a few days ago? Would you trust this government to pass laws with regards to tech?

Yes, that's exactly the goal. Antitrust laws need to be updated for today's technology and businesses.

And you trust the current politicians who were more concerned about Big Tech being unfair to conservatives than they were about antitrust.

Did anything productive come out of the dog and pony shoe?

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#414

Post by scarface74 »

Apocryphon wrote: post #406
scarface74 wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When has Apple initiated a patent lawsuit since Cook became CEO?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4285862

Words Mean Things. That lawsuit didn’t initiate under Cook.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#415

Post by 627467 »

Apocryphon wrote: post #399
627467 wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Spotify may well be target of investigation one day. They are also in the monopolistic platform business model.

And like the Apple App Store, they also benefit from taking a substantial cut from their IP creators.

In my view, the percentages are not the biggest factors that lead to this situation (although it adds to the outrage when the monopolistic accusations are thrown around).

The problem is: all of these big techs want to be a platform, and all of them sell (to their investors) the idea that their platform will be very profitable precisely because it will lock the participants inside a ecosystem hard to escape from.

Apple wasn't always in this business.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#416

Post by scarface74 »

wstrange wrote: post #405
scarface74 wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many consumers on Android are using the Amazon store?

Doesn't that prove the point that competitive app stores would not harm Apple's business? It seems paternalistic to suggest that consumers are too dumb to make an App Store decision on their own.

It also proves the point that consumers don’t care....

We have decades of viruses, malware, ransomware, and toolbars on Windows PCs that prove that the average consumer isn’t that technologically savvy.

I’m not saying Macs are immune in anyway to the same exploits. It’s just that not enough people care to create malware on the Mac to make it that big of a deal.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#417

Post by oscargrouch »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #306
oscargrouch wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The MacDonalds its not yours, while your iPhone is. There's a big difference between the two, and the key difference here is ... Property. But i like your example because its shows the mindset that the iPhone you bought, is in the end the property of Apple, not really yours, and that you are "fine with it".

If you buy a home in a neighborhood with a restrictive homeowners' association covenant, you still own your home even though you're not allowed to paint it blue and put plastic flamingos in the yard. You may not like those restrictions, but they're the restrictions you literally bought into. I really think this is a more accurate take than "Apple restricts what you can do to your device therefore you don't really own…

Using your analogy, there's is a boundary that can even be considered reasonable. In the example you gave, you know the limits, when you bought and you thought they were reasonable.

But suppose that they define which cars you need to have to live in that neightborhood? You would start to think that now they are being unreasonable..

The thing is, Apple can change those "ok, now this is unreasonable" things behind your back without you even being aware of it. How can you know that you would want that car that the "owners" of your neighborhood did not allowed that car seller to offer you? (And no, this is not a stretch, remember that your digital life is a whole big dimension of your life, imagine a centralized point of control)

You wont feel as you would if they forced you to a limited set of cars, but there are a lot of damages happening by allowing them to do as they please, and not only about your rights as a owner of the product, because there are developers and other technological, social and political issues happening with those decisions being made like that.

Unfortunately it cant be compared as just a house that you have not full control of it, because in that case it would most "damage" you in the end.

The decisions Apple are making hurting digital and material property rights have broader implications to the society in general.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#418

Post by 627467 »

nodamage wrote: post #375
627467 wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not what the case is about. The case is about Spotify not having fair access to Apple customers.

Spotify is no more entitled to Apple's customers than Nike is entitled to Walmart's customers. If Nike wants to sell shoes in Walmart they will have to accept Walmarts terms, or find another store to sell in.

Walmart customers are not hostages being prevented to buy in other shops. Analogy doesn't hold.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#419

Post by echelon »

coldtea wrote: post #43
echelon wrote: post #10

Apple had the opportunity to lean on the web and elected not to. With appropriate APIs, web apps can reach into devices and leverage GPU and CPU compute, multiple threads, microphone, camera, on-device storage, and more. HTML and canvas don't have to be the only UI primitives available. Both Google and Apple should be forced to fund the W3C and/or Mozilla in leading development of a cross-platform native experience.…

> Apple had the opportunity to lean on the web and elected not to. Thank god for that. It's why mobile computing in 2020 isn't just Electron apps, like the desktop increasingly becomes...

WASM is about to change your entire world.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#420

Post by jedberg »

bzb3 wrote: post #301
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #22

I applaud this. The manufacturer of the device must not control what apps I run on after buying it. Third-party appstores and app sideloading is a must. (And do not forget third party push-notifications, iOS devices are next to useless without them)

I was completely aware of the software limitations of my iPhone before I bought it yet I did. What you want already exists and it's called Android.

Android doesn't fit my needs. It doesn't integrate with my laptop and my watch. The hardware isn't as good. The privacy isn't as good.

That would be like telling me that if I don't like the Honda Accord I can buy a pickup truck.

They are different things and are not substitutes for each other.

Android is not a substitute for iOS.

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