Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

protonmail.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

371–380 of 600 posts

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#371

Post by bobbylarrybobby »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #38
spullara wrote: post #9

As a consumer, I am 100% in favor of the way run the app store. I don't want to give random apps my credit card. I don't want to have 18 accounts to keep track of. I don't want to have to call telephone support to cancel my account. I don't want malware in my apps. I don't want apps to have my email if they don't need it. I don't need another middleman for content companies license and distribute. Everything Apple is…

It's not like someone will force you paying without your consent. If you don't want to give random apps your credit card, don't give it to them. Why do you oppose other people's right to do that, if they need it?

What happens when an app you use leaves the App Store? Now you’re stuck between purchasing it with a third party payment processor or not using the app. When every app must be on the App Store, this isn’t an issue.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#372

Post by wayneftw »

scarface74 wrote: post #345
inopinatus wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Apple's rules oblige app vendors to not advertise or link to any external method of signing up for a service. So, not only can you can only use Apple's payment methods, but you have to lie (by omission) to consumers about their options. This is the market distortion of the App Store.

Can I put a product in Walmart and tell users they can get it cheaper elsewhere - in Walmart?

If you don’t put your product in Walmart is your product guaranteed to be a failure?

Have you ever heard of anybody releasing a wildly successful app and it not being in the Apple app store?

Are you aware that there are many many many more stores like Walmart than there are stores like the Apple app store?

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#373

Post by echelon »

nemothekid wrote: post #257
echelon wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you support Apple and Google in their claims to 30% of the profit, then you support Comcast charging an additional fee for Netflix. If you support Apple and Google having locked down authoritative control over the code run on their devices, then you support the Great Firewall. The only choice of a free and open society, and one mindful of the great benefit of open source and open platforms, is to remove these comp…

Apple retaining 30% on the store is fascism, but the open web is a utopia? This argument completely ignores the reality of the situation. One of the greatest abusers of the open web is Facebook who tracks users on almost every site and infringes on the privacy of everyone despite whether of not you hold an account. I'm not interested in Facebook, TikTok, or the next VC social media company, getting native, unfettered…

> the open web is a utopia?

It's pretty great afaict.

> One of the greatest abusers of the open web is Facebook who tracks users on almost every site and infringes on the privacy of everyone despite whether of not you hold an account.

Another area where we should exercise legislative action to protect Americans.

> I'm not interested in Facebook, TikTok, or the next VC social media company, getting native, unfettered access to hardware on my phone

You're ignoring the great strides we've made, and continue to make, in sandboxing.

I'd rather these developments happen out in the open, too.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#374

Post by bhupy »

scarface74 wrote: post #348
bhupy wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I'm an idiot, please explain it to me. Of course I know what it means — the argument is way more nuanced than "hurr durr there are 2 and 2 > 1".

It actually isn’t. When you have a choice between paying a premium and paying half as much like 85% of the world. It isn’t a monopoly.

I encourage you to read the original article.

Couple things:

1. The argument isn't that it's a monopoly, it's that it's arguably monopsony. The issue is less that users don't have the choice to buy the phone they want with the OS they want, it's that developers/suppliers are unable to access a huge chunk of the market without being forced to pay 30% of earnings.

2. While it's closer to a "duopsony" than a "monopsony", it gets a little more complicated when you look at the level of each regional market. In the US, Apple's market share is closer to 50%.

Maybe it's not anti-competitive for there to be only 2 app buyers on the market, but maybe it is. That's the debate, and it's by no means clear cut.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#375

Post by nodamage »

627467 wrote: post #366
nodamage wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And I imply to agree with labeling Apple a monopoly precisely because, unlike the gas station on your example, a iPhone user cannot drive 3 miles to buy Spotify without having to pay Apple's 30% fee. They can choose a non-Apple phone. There is an alternative product on the market.

That is not what the case is about. The case is about Spotify not having fair access to Apple customers.

Spotify is no more entitled to Apple's customers than Nike is entitled to Walmart's customers. If Nike wants to sell shoes in Walmart they will have to accept Walmarts terms, or find another store to sell in.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#376

Post by wlesieutre »

saagarjha wrote: post #331
aeurielesn wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rest assured that despite the somehow surprisingly recent blind support for Apple here, there are people too that want to own our devices. I can just hope that the EU is successful in stopping all of Apple's trickeries ranging from 2.5mm headset jacks, ports, OS slow downs, mysterious battery underperformance, app store, the list just goes on.

> I can just hope that the EU is successful in stopping all of Apple's trickeries ranging from 2.5mm headset jacks, ports, OS slow downs, mysterious battery underperformance Entirely unrelated, and it's 3.5 mm by the way.

2.5mm jacks exist but iOS devices have never used them. I think some feature phones did that back in the day.

Personally I've only encountered them on a pair of headphones where they're a step up from a soldered on cable, but more annoying than a standard jack would be. It's also recessed really far in with a very narrow twist-lock connector, so isn't compatible with any cables except the special one it comes with.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#377

Post by Barrin92 »

bradly wrote: post #111
Barrin92 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen many things described as a feature but platform monopoly is a new one, unless 'many of us' in this case means 'Apple shareholder'

Why can't the increased security of the review process be a feature?

it can (on the official app store), it's just not an argument against letting other stores compete on the same platform. For all I care put a banner up that says 'this is not first party Apple software, you use it on your own risk!' and what is the problem? You're not being robbed of your safe Apple store at all, users only gain choice.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#378

Post by wayneftw »

jagged-chisel wrote: post #336
socialdemocrat wrote: post #307

I am a big Apple fan, but seriously, you guys are bending yourselves into pretzels to make up excuses for Apple. we already know what a market without a mandatory App Store looks like because it is like that for the Mac. I still prefer buying apps through Apple’s store. Due to safety, ease of use etc. But I am happy alternatives exist when I need them. They could follow a similar model for iPhone where non-Apple stor…

I fear the inevitable end down that path lies people who bought an iDevice, enabled alternative stores, were duped/hacked/otherwise-invaded, visited a Genius only to be told Apple won’t help them, and then lawsuits against Apple for their trouble.

So this must’ve happened to Google already since they allow sideloading...

I was not able to find anything.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#379

Post by Apocryphon »

wlesieutre wrote: post #340
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can run third party apps and Steam on macOS-equipped laptop computers just fine. Why it should be any different on pocket or tablet iOS computers?

I appreciate that iOS does not allow software to require this. Yes you can avoid the giant mess of 3rd party launchers on Mac, but only by writing off huge swaths of the software market. Want to run Photoshop? You get to have the Creative Cloud client. The current state of iOS software is that I never have to go into Task Manager and see what junk has inserted itself as a startup item, whether anything will break if…

Then don't download apps from a hypothetical secondary iOS App Store. You literally have the same option as people in this thread who say "just don't buy Apple."

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#380

Post by 627467 »

DenisM wrote: post #318
627467 wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is any of this relevant to "EU" as seen in title?

Discussing Sherman act is a good starting point as it illuminates the spirit of the antitrust law and illustrates the letter. Do you think the EU definition of monopoly is different enough to allow Apple be classified as a monopoly? Please, make your case!

I don't need to make my case, we'll have months (years?) Of that when the case goes ahead.

What I know is: Sherman act jurisdiction does not extend into the EU

Post reply on HN