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The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

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Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#391

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Most people are naive about how applications will coerce them into doing things against their best interest when given the ability, such as a request while installing, requesting access to parts of the system that reveal PII. Most people do not have the knowledge to evaluate how these things play out. Apple via the app store at least does some work to mitigate this and when they do fail, are able to fix it.

You are making the case for the app store to exist, not for it to have no competitors. Let's suppose that Apple's store is infallible. Well then the availability of other stores won't matter, will it? Apple will approve everything good and reject everything bad and you'll know that anything not in their store is bad and have no reason to ever look at another store even if they exist. But suppose they're not infallibl…

I don't see this playing out on Android where other stores exist. And lets take this to the brick and mortar model. 30 ish% of the end user price is not a lot, when many products are at least 100% markup.

But first, we know the App store isn't infallible, but it has an incentive to have more false negatives than positives. It is able to correct past mistakes and does do so.

But as far as competitive pressure, that argument is mute as long as there is no way for the "normal" owner/user of a device to evaluate the market. By the time the bad actor is exposed, it is often too late. The other side is that one only has to look at the Play store to see that there are so many copies of original apps that it is obfuscating them. One cannot find the legitimate app. So until most people are able to be informed and evaluate the apps, it isn't in their favor to want alternative stores.

Also, one has a choice, buy or don't buy the device. Apple does not have a majority of sales in phones, not even close. Also, you can side load any softare you want. It's a service that is paid for , but for free it's 7 days per install.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#392
post #242

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How do you feel about them removing an app because it allows people from HK to circumvent censorship? And why? Just asking to understand your point of view on the article.

You mean where they could get the same functionality from a website?

Using a website would mean browsing it through Safari (the only, artificially imposed browser on iOS), which notoriously doesn't support push notifications and other app-like features. One generally can not get the same functionality from websites and apps, and this is especially true for iOS.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#393

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It's their product and they can do whatever they want with it. If anyone doesn't like that, they can easily not purchase iDevices. Apple doesn't force people to buy their products.

Microsoft didn't force people to buy Windows, "all" they did was install IE by default and they got done for that. Precedent disagrees with you.

> Microsoft didn't force people to buy Windows

Most people don't by Window's in a store, it's pre-installed on PCs and Microsoft did, in fact, force computer companies to buy Windows licenses for every PC regardless of what OS it came with and they threatened to pull their licensing entirely for any company that didn't abide.

Ironically, this is not what got them into trouble.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#394
post #358

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Being creative with our analogies? Does Tesla contractually prevents you from buying gas?

When you buy a Tesla you know you can’t go to a gas station. Is it the governments responsibility to keep you from buying a device that didn’t meet your needs?

I keep reading "can't" and I can't imagine how owning a Tesla prevents me from doing business in a gas station.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#395

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The same could be said the other way around. Why force a private company to open its system? Apple built the entire ecosystem and you want to force them to open it up to your desire. Why is that ok?

Because it is acting against the interests of the users. Would you still support Apple's position if, say, Apple would roll out update to iOS with new EULA, which would require you to give up your firstborn son for a Satan sacrifice? Of course, you can refuse, but the device that you supposedly "own" would effectively stop functioning (obsoleted iOS devices lose their usefulness very fast: try doing anything with iPh…

I would sell it and buy a new phone. Do you think Apple competitors would not pay you or accept the phone as part of payment if Apple did that? The problem is people think they are smarter than everybody and can tell you how to manage things. The market is smarter than anybody or any group of people. You cannot force a private company to cater to your beliefs of how a system should work. People buy iPhones knowing there is only one app store. And, as an iPhone user, is an advantage. I know that my grandparents and parents using an iPhone will not screw it up, or at least the possibility is smaller compared to the alternatives.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#396

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I appreciate that iOS does not allow software to require this. Yes you can avoid the giant mess of 3rd party launchers on Mac, but only by writing off huge swaths of the software market. Want to run Photoshop? You get to have the Creative Cloud client. The current state of iOS software is that I never have to go into Task Manager and see what junk has inserted itself as a startup item, whether anything will break if…

Then don't download apps from a hypothetical secondary iOS App Store. You literally have the same option as people in this thread who say "just don't buy Apple."

Oh but see then third parties who's software _I_ want so badly and would sacrifice my ethical position to acquire might choose not to distribute on Apple's app store because it's anti-competitive. Well shit.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same could be said the other way around. Why force a private company to open its system? Apple built the entire ecosystem and you want to force them to open it up to your desire. Why is that ok?

For the same reason antitrust laws exist. Monopolies need to be prevented to maintain a healthy economy.

How is Apple a monopoly? They own a system and manage the rules around it, that is not a monopoly. Will you force car manufacturers to let you install any system in the car? Why can't I install any app on my car?

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#398
post #300

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There are thousands of different restaurants to choose from. There are only two pocket computers. And they're both beating people up over protection money. Moreover, computing used to be free like water. These companies locked it down so you have to go through them. Imagine if you had to pay McDonald's to open your own restaurant. Imagine if every restaurant in the US had to do so. Imagine if McDonald's gathered data…

I'm not sure what the laws are in Europe, but in the US, there's nothing inherently illegal about being a monopoly. The illegality begins when one tries using the monopoly to gain an edge in other markets. Arguably, Apple has monopoly power in the market they built so nothing wrong there. If you're trying to make the argument that maybe we should change the laws to make monopolies illegal, it would be easier to discu…

I think we fundamentally disagree about Apple's behavior.

> Arguably, Apple has monopoly power in the market they built so nothing wrong there.

Apple embraced the web and the internet, then extinguished it as a means of getting software to consumers.

> Online marketplaces tend to be global marketplaces with very high barriers to entry.

This is false. The web is a free for all.

A better analogy for iPhone and Android being marketplaces is x86 and ARM being marketplaces. Can you imagine having to pay to run your code and your commerce on CPUs?

Phones should be utilities.

> A better example might be a national every day low price store like Walmart.

I don't know. There's Target, Home Depot, Lowes, Whole Foods, Kroger, REI, Dick's, CVS, Dollar Tree, Dollar General, ...

Why don't Netflix and DHH try to sell their wares there?

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#399
post #364

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Spotify in fact doesn’t go through the App Store for purchases. The better question is why hasn’t Spotify made a decent watch app that can stream directly to it and download music for off line use? Apple added the ability last year. How much of a cut does Spotify take from musicians to be on its platform?

And Spotify may well be target of investigation one day. They are also in the monopolistic platform business model.

And like the Apple App Store, they also benefit from taking a substantial cut from their IP creators.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is a Mcdonalds restaurant (which McDonalds owns) in any way equivalent to my iPhone (which I supposedly own).

Well, you chose to own an iPhone knowing it didn’t meet your requirements. Do you need the government to protect you from your own decisions?

Given that

(a) no smartphone exists that is a perfect fit for my ideal requirements

and

(b) having some smartphone is now almost essential to function normally within society

I would say yes, I absolutely do want the government to intervene. Market competition is obviously not doing the job, and none of us individually is strong enough to force the issue with the suppliers. That is exactly the situation where regulatory intervention is appropriate to protect the little guy from the power of the big guy.

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