Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone • Hacker News Board

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#771

Post by kf » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 11:44 PM UTC

TomMarius wrote: post #329

kf wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...living in evolving anarchy has benefits though. I suspect that San Francisco’s open air drug market with dangerously cheap methamphetamine is one of the dirty secrets behind the engine of creation of Silicon Valley.

Interesting - meth is considered a poor man's drug in Europe, a person with more than less money would never touch it (and favor cocaine).

I’m not a meth user but I have one very wealthy friend who is. He insists that meth in the USA is used only by the very rich and the very poor with no middle class use.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#772

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 11:46 PM UTC

remarkEon wrote: post #162

dragonwriter wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Cut funding for police departments”, that is shown in that poll isn't what the dismantle/abolish is about (it's not even a fair portrayal what “defund” is centrally about, which is shifting funding from PDs to alternative services .) And that poll is from near the beginning of the recent protests. More recent polling shows much higher support for both “defund” and “dismantle” than what that poll found for it's lopsi…

Yes, there exists nuance to the "defund the police" stance (though a lot less on the whole "abolish" the police position). My point is that many people have essentially been gaslit into thinking this has widespread support. It does not, regardless of whatever nuance exists. From your article: >For example, 39% of respondents supported proposals “to completely dismantle police departments and give more financial suppo…

[deleted]

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#773

Post by ryanlol » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 11:48 PM UTC

thu2111 wrote: post #348

gabesk wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also about that far away and walked through there last night. It felt more like a summer street fair festival. I also took a few pictures. https://photos.app.goo.gl/UN8RpwWS5TYAY5Nn7

But then there's also this: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EaQyClgU4AEJnWf?format=jpg&name=... https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EaQyCmMUEAEn_1o?format=jpg&name=... I've not before seen a summer street festival where armed militias wearing bulletproof vests patrol the streets.

> I've not before seen a summer street festival where armed militias wearing bulletproof vests patrol the streets.

In big European cities it’s pretty normal to see cops wearing body armor and carrying rifles around such events.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#774

Post by jessaustin » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 1:07 AM UTC

monocasa wrote: post #650

zaarn wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you make it law that it becomes required.

I guess I'm just on the side of: if the only thing we think police should be doing is something they already legally don't have to do, achieving the goal of getting that covered is better handled by tearing the entire system down and building a new system with a new name and new members than trying to force reform on orgs that have fought it tooth and nail. The actors that have gotten rulings like Warren v. District…

Maybe we haven't voted hard enough?

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#775

Post by lioeters » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 1:14 AM UTC

Semaphor wrote: post #327

rtkwe wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a more recent map. It's a lot busier, but looks like they're building out. https://capitolhillautonomous.zone/life.html#pid=23

Direct link: https://capitolhillautonomous.zone/img/23.jpg

Wow, that's grown up and filled in quite a bit since last I saw the map. They seem ready for a longer haul. Now that they have our attention, I wish them the best in making their voices heard. So this is what democracy looks like.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#776

Post by downerending » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 1:18 AM UTC

loeg wrote: post #749

downerending wrote: post #703

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's somewhat telling that both the mayor and the police chief deny ordering the abandonment. Who the hell is running the city?

The open question is not about the city generally, but the police. "Who are the Seattle police accountable to?" And: good question. No one, apparently.

The question of why the Seattle police abandoned a precinct isn't really a question of who the police are accountable to. Clearly someone who feels that the police are a malign force ordered them to leave. Who had the power and did it?

My guess is the mayor and/or the forces that pull her strings.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#777

Post by downerending » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 1:20 AM UTC

twirlip wrote: post #721

downerending wrote: post #700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should watch some of the riot videos. In one, I saw an Antifa kick an unconscious man in the head. My mother, who lived through Nazi Germany, would have understood these people as brownshirts.

Going Godwin? You are the first; something to mull over, I suppose. (I separate your "Nazi" from the "neonazi" used in an adjacent post). However, as Antifa is decidedly Anti-Fascist and without the paramilitary aspect of the brownshirts, perhaps they would be more closely identified with the Rotfrontkämpferbund.

> Antifa is decidedly Anti-Fascist

I have not noticed this. They seem like a hateful mob to me. Or worse. I'll be happy enough if the Feds just roll them up.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#778

Post by monocasa » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 1:24 AM UTC

jessaustin wrote: post #774

monocasa wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I'm just on the side of: if the only thing we think police should be doing is something they already legally don't have to do, achieving the goal of getting that covered is better handled by tearing the entire system down and building a new system with a new name and new members than trying to force reform on orgs that have fought it tooth and nail. The actors that have gotten rulings like Warren v. District…

Maybe we haven't voted hard enough?

I'd say Minneapolis voted pretty hard the past couple weeks and are getting tangible results from it.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#779

Post by standardUser » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 1:55 AM UTC

solidasparagus wrote: post #746

standardUser wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The continued existence of Christiania in Denmark should prove to you sufficiently that these types of attempts are not automatically doomed.

I mean would Seattle residents really consider CHAZ turning into Christiania a win? For a community of less than 1000 people, it seems to have a ridiculous amount of violence and crime.

What violence? How many serious injuries or deaths have occurred?

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#780

Post by ubercow13 » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 2:13 AM UTC

AnHonestComment wrote: post #686

dragonwriter wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Police are safer than cars, For whom and per...what? Encounter? Mile traveled with them? > The only violence I’ve seen from police that doesn’t seem like an anomaly is violence that protestors incited by starting a conflict with the police. That suggests to me that either your perception of provocation or of anomaly is skewed (or that “anomaly” is used in the software sense of “behavior out of line with spec” rathe…

Per arrest to one year of driving: you would have to be arrested ten times in a year for your risk from the police to match your risk driving a car that year. Per arrest for violent crime (where most of the deaths occur), blacks are safer than whites. I’ve been reviewing the footage from Seattle — and protestors started every instance of violence by first getting forceful with the cops. Show me any evidence that ther…

It doesn’t seem minor compared to other countries police forces. Why should being killed by the police be acceptable as long as the risk is lower than that from traffic?