Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you do with all of the people, and the entire system, that's been built and trained for a century to not do that? I doubt many people are against the idea of a specialized government role that provides protection services. What they are against is: * Thinking we can get that role by reforming existing police systems, given how opposed police systems are to such reform * That these systems need the absurd budg…
You fire them all and rehire the ones that are capable of being proper police officers.
Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone
431–440 of 920 posts
Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone
#432Earlier quoted context omitted.
They don't exist? Why are there photos of them then? https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/conte... https://twitter.com/DrewHolden360/status/1271196018554494977... The claims that these militias are extorting businesses doesn't come from "the right", it comes from claims by the local police chief. Addressing the takeover of the area surrounding the Seattle Police Department’s abandoned East Precinct…
Chief Carmen Best may be totally wrong or making that up. https://www.businessinsider.com/seattle-police-retract-claim... As it turns out she was, in fact, wrong or making it up.
I dunno. She 'walked back' the statement. Maybe people were making that up to try to get the cops to retake the area? It could have also been absolutely true. Having lived in that area, I wouldn't put it past them.
Honestly, it's impossible to know at this point.
Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone
#433Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you do with all of the people, and the entire system, that's been built and trained for a century to not do that? I doubt many people are against the idea of a specialized government role that provides protection services. What they are against is: * Thinking we can get that role by reforming existing police systems, given how opposed police systems are to such reform * That these systems need the absurd budg…
You fire them all and rehire the ones that are capable of being proper police officers.
Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone
#434Earlier quoted context omitted.
"they were so proud of what was built" Curious, since I can't trust news media to not sensationalize this: What has been built, according to your friend? Have they set up infrastructure of some sort for housing people? Kitchens, latrines, etc?
They put up a cardboard sign that said "you are now leaving the USA" and graffitied some surfaces. https://i.imgur.com/f6VHPJ0.jpg
I suspect they'll all just get bored at some point.
Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone
#435Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone
#436Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone
#437All: this story is here because it's an interesting phenomenon, a la https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html . Before commenting, please make sure you're up to date on those rules and post in the intended spirit (curiosity and conversation) not the opposite one (ideology and battle).
This is a stub comment to collect replies in one place, so that it can be collapsed and prevent too much offtopicness at the top of the thread.
Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone
#438Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The media coverage of it is WILD I live 7 blocks away from "the zone" and can confirm, I have never in my life seen anything alike in this regard. The scale of the misinformation being spread in social networks and news media reached a level I couldn't believe possible before. Seriously, it's beyond absurd. If anyone is interested, I have been taking some pictures of the ongoing protests (including a few of the zon…
Seattle police chief said on TV [1] that "Rapes, robberies and all sorts of violent acts have been occurring in the area and we're not able to get to [them]." Doesn’t sound very utopian [1] https://twitter.com/mrandyngo/status/1271291958296604675?s=2...
But what did the CCP say? What's Trump's report of on-the-ground conditions?
Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone
#439A friend lives in Seattle and texted me today about his visit last night: > I was there last night and it's such a cool pseudo utopian place > The media coverage of it is WILD > People on the internet are convinced it's protected by armed guards and people are dying of hunger and instead its...like a music festival campground > There are speakers, musicians, art walls. I took a group pic for a bunch of black guys las…
> a music festival campground Which is fun for a while until people start dying or fighting like they always do and suddenly you need a group of people who spend their time dealing with it. Anarchic utopias do not stay utopic for all that long.
All animals start off equal, but some animals will eventually grow to be more equal than others.
Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone
#440Earlier quoted context omitted.
The scary thing is that this protest is foreshadowed by the WTO protests also orchestrated by 'left-leaning' groups, and now we have a president -- Trump -- who is very much against the WTO, except he's bad now because they've moved beyond that. The other interesting comparison here is the varied response to this and the Malheur National wildlife refuge occupation.
I couldn't agree more; I think part of the appeal of the right is somewhat dogmatic in that most of the sticking points are very fundamental and the messaging is very straightforward; guns, religion, family, low taxes. What does the left stand for? Being a progressive is a moving target, and the inter-messaging is very mixed and often contradictory. Ex. for a long time liberalism was about free speech but now we want…
They're not really consistent at all but their messaging and party policing has been more strict
>What does the left stand for >for a long time liberalism was about free speech but now we want to regulate speech with safe-spaces and trigger warnings.
it's funny watching americans sprinkling around left, liberal, etc as political terms whilst defining the weird mix that ends up under the wings of the two parties. Some (self-proclaimed) libertarians & conservatives, protectionists & free market hardliners standing under the same republicans umbrella with radically clashing beliefs. Free market liberals fighting with leftists who are laughing at social progressives under the umbrella of the democrats.
>Part of this probably evolves from the fact that Liberals are introspective and willing to challenge their beliefs to their own disadvantage in a way that the GOP never has been
I'd say with growing inequality and declining social mobility it's hard for the mainstream core of democrats to really push a broader platform that the party fully aligns with, differs from the republicans and rings well with their base. They don't really roll with protectionist stances a la bernie or trump, they don't really align with unions or workers anymore as they've dropped them for an upper middle-class educated focus whilst at the same time still keeping some actual more left wing remnants under their wing that they try to suppress and retain at the same time They have started less invasions but aren't really against global force projection at all. They don't really clash with conservatives on stock buybacks, markets, banking, what have you whilst at the same time still pushing cushioning programs like obamacare to give at least a sense of direction there. So when on a lot of those fronts you're not really united or notably different from the opposition what's left? Social issues. Social equality when it comes to sex, race or what have you. So pushing those makes sense.