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Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

latimes.com

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Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#221

Post by jgon »

friendlybus wrote: post #172
snarf21 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally agree. What we do need is better worker protections and consumer protections. Get rid of no-competes. Get rid of right to work statutes. Add mandatory retirement contributions. Add mandatory and standard severance packages.

The best outcome is the industry self-regulating these amendments into their business practices under the threat of unionizing, rather than actually turning the industry into an institution itself and losing it's creative spark.

The industry has had roughly 4 decades to make those self-regulating adjustments, how much longer should we wait?

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#222

Post by forrestthewoods »

tomtheelder wrote: post #176
friendlybus wrote: post #155

Here is a direct example of unions slowing down the little guy in the entertainment industry: https://youtu.be/LRVwlif6th0?t=171 Niko has to cut costs to make low budget films and the union mandates someone watch the camera feed for the director, completely unnecessarily in the modern era. The film industry is notorious for the boundaries around union and non-union work. Gary Oldman's decline of a role in Star Wars u…

We live at the absolute _extreme_ of capital power over labor power. Unions can certainly do harm, and you are right that they shouldn't be seen as a pure and irreproachable force for good, but small anecdotes about individual bad decisions made by unions are not useful in discussions about this. In fact, they play to the already ridiculously anti-union sentiment that the vast majority of Americans (this article is a…

> We live at the absolute _extreme_ of capital power over labor power.

The #1 problem in most cities is too many people are making too much money and it’s driving housing prices through the roof.

The demand for skilled labor is astronomical. I would not call that absolute extreme power of capital over labor.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#223

Post by sudosysgen »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #154
reaperducer wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just going to point out, everywhere, I have ever heard of a union it generally made it harder for new people to come in, not easier My observation has been the opposite. I believe because the unions have an interest in increasing their membership, not letting it atrophy and decrease due to time and deaths. A union that doesn't have a growing membership is a union that will disappear. In fact, some unions I've seen ha…

Worth noting that if they didn't do this, then those same people would be easily exploitable competition in their profession, so it's probably self-interest even for the individual existing union members, as well as the union itself to bring them inside the system.

Yep, it benefits everyone except exploitative employers that hire illegal immigrants to treat them poorly

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#224

Post by forrestthewoods »

snarf21 wrote: post #166
friendlybus wrote: post #155

Here is a direct example of unions slowing down the little guy in the entertainment industry: https://youtu.be/LRVwlif6th0?t=171 Niko has to cut costs to make low budget films and the union mandates someone watch the camera feed for the director, completely unnecessarily in the modern era. The film industry is notorious for the boundaries around union and non-union work. Gary Oldman's decline of a role in Star Wars u…

I generally agree. What we do need is better worker protections and consumer protections. Get rid of no-competes. Get rid of right to work statutes. Add mandatory retirement contributions. Add mandatory and standard severance packages.

> Get rid of right to work statutes

I would not call taking away a worker’s right to work a benefit for a skilled worker.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#225

Post by eropple »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #204
eropple wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, a union definitely would have meant that half a dozen friends couldn't quit their employer and go work for themselves . That's definitely how it works. Because unions are slavery. Why are you bad-faithing your way around this entire discussion?

I’m not. You are making a sarcastic comment to attack straw man claims that nobody made. I think that’s bad faith.

OK, fine, then, I'll bite. If that's not the "claim" you want people to extract from your drive-bys, then please substantiate: how--exactly--would that evil specter of a union prevented Carmack and his friends from founding iD to make Keen, Doom, and Quake? Be specific.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#226

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

mlillie wrote: post #102
quest88 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think op is saying that the video game developers are choosing to subject themselves to it and therefore they don't need protections. Even though conditions are said to be bad studios somehow seem to have an endless supply of developers.

They do subject themselves to it. However, what that analysis lack is an understanding that the worker/employer power relationship is completely asymmetrical. Workers have everything to lose, Employers have nothing to lose. That leads to 'illogical' decisions such as workers who could find work elsewhere opting not to: Shit, their rent, their medicine, their family is on the line here. Maybe the new job will be worse…

> "Employers have nothing to lose."

Wrong in general and doubly wrong in the games industry where small game studios go bankrupt pretty much every other week. Not everybody is a FAANG or a billion dollar game publisher swimming in cash.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#228

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

chobeat wrote: post #220
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are making seriously sweeping allegations, could you not? It's hard to have a serious discussion when someone goes generalizing 300 million people and all of their jobs. >* No vacation. >* No parental leave. >* No sick leave. All three of these are provided, I don't have a union. >At-will-employment (which inherently causes massive under-reporting of things like sexual harassment in the workplace due to the fear…

> All three of these are provided, I don't have a union. You said it right, they are provided. In Europe they are not provided: they are your right and it cannot be taken away by your employer. Also an anecdote doesn't invalidate something that is true for a vast majority of the american workforce. But even if it was just a single person, it would still be a tragedy and a problem to solve.

>Also an anecdote doesn't invalidate something that is true for a vast majority of the american workforce.

You just love your wide sweeping claims don't you? No it is not true for the vast majority of the american workforce.

>You said it right, they are provided. In Europe they are not provided: they are your right and it cannot be taken away by your employer.

Can we please not move the goal posts, I thought this was a union discussion? If everyone in the U.S should have 4 weeks vacation, 4 months maternity leave, however much sick leave is deemed appropriate, that can be done at the legal level. You do not need unions to exist to do that!

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#229

Post by dragonwriter »

jahaja wrote: post #131

How Americans can be so anti-union by default is really beyond me when looking at the facts at the ground: * A culture of overwork (especially in the game industry). * No vacation. * No parental leave. * No sick leave. * At-will-employment (which inherently causes massive under-reporting of things like sexual harassment in the workplace due to the fear of losing ones livelihood, and please spare me the "actually it's…

The US has federally mandated (job-protected, but not necessarily paid) parental leave, and a number of states have mandated paid parental and sick leave.

Of course, these are largely a product of lobbying by unions, which don't just do collective bargaining.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#230

Post by username90 »

eropple wrote: post #225
lawnchair_larry wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not. You are making a sarcastic comment to attack straw man claims that nobody made. I think that’s bad faith.

OK, fine, then, I'll bite. If that's not the "claim" you want people to extract from your drive-bys, then please substantiate: how--exactly--would that evil specter of a union prevented Carmack and his friends from founding iD to make Keen, Doom, and Quake? Be specific.

John Carmack was hired as a starry eyed novice without degree. A union would probably prohibit such things by enacting a high minimum wage and so on.

Edit: Since you probably missed it, the question where how unions would prevent John Carmack from existing as he does now. John Carmack entered the gaming industry as a low skilled cheap abused worker, if he couldn't have done that at a young age chances are he would never have started his company and so on. Being able to work for 3 years instead of finishing your degree is an option unions likely would close.

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