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Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

latimes.com

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Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#211

Post by andrew_ »

jahaja wrote: post #131

How Americans can be so anti-union by default is really beyond me when looking at the facts at the ground: * A culture of overwork (especially in the game industry). * No vacation. * No parental leave. * No sick leave. * At-will-employment (which inherently causes massive under-reporting of things like sexual harassment in the workplace due to the fear of losing ones livelihood, and please spare me the "actually it's…

I would point directly to the rampant and historical abuse that has plagued union leadership in the US, in a litany of business sectors as the primary reason. One of the largest in the country, the UAW, is currently going through quite a turnover as multiple layers of leadership are being indicted for everything from fraud to racketeering.

Information about historical scandals is very searchable on the Googles.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#212

Post by Kalium »

jahaja wrote: post #177
Kalium wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could always compare unemployment rates in the US to those in France for a straight forward comparison to a European country. Then we could compare full-time employment rates for another straight forward comparison to a European country. The American experience is that labor can and occasionally has set itself up for massive failure in the past. The idea that there's literally nothing to lose fails a basic sanity…

> We could always compare unemployment rates in the US to those in France for a straight forward comparison to a European country. Then we could compare full-time employment rates for another straight forward comparison to a European country. Sure, go a head. Historically as well. Furthermore, what kinds of jobs are those actually? What is the quality of the jobs? Do they enable a dignified existence and so on? > The…

I wrote a more detailed response, but I have deleted it, as it was a distraction. Getting into the details of Detroit's economic history or a deep comparison between the US and French economies struck me as perhaps not as helpful as it could be while providing an endless profusion of points for differences of opinion to distract. I hope you'll forgive this editorial decision.

Please accept my sincere apologies if I have been in any way less than clear. All I ask if that you consider if it may be worth considering the possibility that some people might might legitimately, earnestly, and honestly perceive there to be real risks. People may have what seem to them to be good reasons to fear that they may actually have something to lose. Some of these reasons might be rooted in history in living memory.

Please, don't hesitate to ask if there's something you would like me to clarify about this core point.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#213

Post by taurath »

vvanders wrote: post #153
Tiktaalik wrote: post #54

I would strongly consider supporting a video game union, if only to help formalize the things that the good shops do and bring those practices industry wide. Personally I haven't done a day of overtime in seven years and I feel reasonably compensated but there are clearly other places out there that are still exploiting their workers. Improving worker input into production schedules and creating clear guidelines arou…

> Standardizing crediting would be one close to my heart. Oh hell yeah. I did 3+ years on a title, nearly killing myself to ship it. When I realized that doing that much OT was doing to my personal relationships, health and sanity I left with a generous transition ~8mo before ship(including tossing 2.5mo of PTO because they didn't have to pay it out and I could never take it). Listed under "special thanks" as well, i…

> Since everyone had gone through the hazing process it was a self-perpetuating cycle that didn't stop.

I find it’s more than people only get one shot to organize their project, and it’s scarier to try something you haven’t vs something that was extremely painful but delivered. There’s a large contingent that believes without massive overtime and crunch a game will never be released.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#215

Post by mc32 »

reaperducer wrote: post #138
hpoe wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> creating more opportunities for young new grads to break in Just going to point out, everywhere, I have ever heard of a union it generally made it harder for new people to come in, not easier, by increasing the commitment an employer is expected to make to an employee, and by making it harder to remove employees that need to be removed but can't because of their seniority with the union.

Just going to point out, everywhere, I have ever heard of a union it generally made it harder for new people to come in, not easier My observation has been the opposite. I believe because the unions have an interest in increasing their membership, not letting it atrophy and decrease due to time and deaths. A union that doesn't have a growing membership is a union that will disappear. In fact, some unions I've seen ha…

My experience is that new members subsidize veteran members as junior non-full time pay in but don’t get a lot back.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#216

Post by taurath »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #201
jakelazaroff wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's use Facebook as an example. The median employee salary is $240,000 [1], but Facebook makes an average of $1,620,000 in revenue per employee [2]. Why is it okay for a company to extract a so much more money from an employee than they pay them, but not okay for employees to band together to get paid what they're worth? [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-median-pay-240000-2... [2] https://www.businessins…

1. Using revenue comparison is incorrect. Profit is more complicated because you have to add back in compensation (and if necessary be able to know when r&d comp is capitalized and be able to break out r&d versus sg&a if you only talking about comp for particular groups of employees) but it is the correct per-employee stat to compare. 2. Median employee salary is wrong, you should look at average salary if you are co…

All in employee costs don’t rise nearly as fast as wages when wages go up.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#218

Post by legitster »

Symbiote wrote: post #169
legitster wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans are very used to switching jobs to take better options and do not suffer bad bosses for long. I would say it is pretty rare to actually have a job with no vacation or leave. Unions in the US can feel stifling, as they only rewarding if you can stick with the same job and position for a long time. It's not a very American mindset to stay with a job and make demands when you can just bounce to a slightly bett…

A union position has immediate reward, if they've negotiated better vacation, sick leave, and job security etc than the alternative.

I have a relative who is a Teamster and pays $16k in Union dues a year. He said the math on his benefits only works out for him if he works for more than 15 years in the same position. Obviously different for different unions, but the vast majority of benefits in most unions go to those with seniority.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#219

Post by tsimionescu »

bob1029 wrote: post #5

I read all of this as "Major union seeks to extract rent from an additional sector". I agree that putting developers on death marches is antithetical to everything that is human, but it's not like you don't have options in this industry... Tech work isn't like coal mining where your health is legitimately at risk on a daily basis, and where the number of alternative options available to the average worker is low to n…

Unions are not just there to protect people close to poverty wages or who work in potentially deadly conditions. Sure, as a software engineer you are pretty well off to begin with, but there is also the question of fairness - how much of the company's success are workers actually reaping? Are they really getting a fair share of the fruits of their labor? The union should help with that, if nothing else.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#220

Post by chobeat »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #207
jahaja wrote: post #131

How Americans can be so anti-union by default is really beyond me when looking at the facts at the ground: * A culture of overwork (especially in the game industry). * No vacation. * No parental leave. * No sick leave. * At-will-employment (which inherently causes massive under-reporting of things like sexual harassment in the workplace due to the fear of losing ones livelihood, and please spare me the "actually it's…

You are making seriously sweeping allegations, could you not? It's hard to have a serious discussion when someone goes generalizing 300 million people and all of their jobs. >* No vacation. >* No parental leave. >* No sick leave. All three of these are provided, I don't have a union. >At-will-employment (which inherently causes massive under-reporting of things like sexual harassment in the workplace due to the fear…

> All three of these are provided, I don't have a union.

You said it right, they are provided. In Europe they are not provided: they are your right and it cannot be taken away by your employer. Also an anecdote doesn't invalidate something that is true for a vast majority of the american workforce. But even if it was just a single person, it would still be a tragedy and a problem to solve.

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