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Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

latimes.com

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Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#161

Post by lettergram »

balls187 wrote: post #45
lettergram wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I won’t comment on anything but the ageism. Most of the developers I work with are in there late 20s and early 30s. We’ve hired people in their 40s, 50s and 60s to join our team. According to those I’ve spoken with there really isn’t a challenge to find work - regardless of age. The caveat being everyone I spoke with was current on the latest languages, research, etc. If you stay current with the times you can find a…

Curious how are the 40,50,60 year old programmers working out for your team?

I think the difference may be approach. I found those older were often better at estimating and had a breadth of knowledge they could draw from.

Honestly, I think generally everyone comes to the table with experience. Those who are older typically can tie theirs together better than we can vocalizing between members, so they have an edge.

Everyone I’ve worked with has always been willing to learn (it’s what I personally and companies screen for in interviews) so that’s never been a problem.

Generally though, age doesn’t play a role in anything meaningful I’ve seen. Years of experience In a field can help, willingness to learn, and attitude / temperament, that’s about it - irrespective of age

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#162

Post by legitster »

jahaja wrote: post #131

How Americans can be so anti-union by default is really beyond me when looking at the facts at the ground: * A culture of overwork (especially in the game industry). * No vacation. * No parental leave. * No sick leave. * At-will-employment (which inherently causes massive under-reporting of things like sexual harassment in the workplace due to the fear of losing ones livelihood, and please spare me the "actually it's…

Americans are very used to switching jobs to take better options and do not suffer bad bosses for long. I would say it is pretty rare to actually have a job with no vacation or leave.

Unions in the US can feel stifling, as they only rewarding if you can stick with the same job and position for a long time. It's not a very American mindset to stay with a job and make demands when you can just bounce to a slightly better one. And few people idealize working in the same job for 30 years.

Video game workers are probably an exception in that they are willing to agree to terrible terms in order to chase what they perceive is their dream job.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#163

Post by noirbot »

aabeshou wrote: post #134
ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of development studios are relatively small and, if you follow industry news, bankruptcy is a routine occurrence; even some well known small and indie names are only one or two flops away from bankruptcy. Unions might be able to make headway against EA, Valve, or Activision but for the smaller studios, well, there is no surplus. You can't get blood from a stone no matter how hard you squeeze.

Yes, but why would a union negotiate a deal that bankrupts their small studio? That's against their own self-interest.

I think the question is "Is there a better deal that's possible without bankrupting the studio?" When it comes to it, a lot of game companies are essentially running like startups, but without the massive gluts of VC funding to give them runway. It's questionable how much small-to-mid-sized studios can increase costs without making it all the more risky that a single underperformance kills the studio.

Obviously, this is less the case at somewhere like EA/Activision/2K/Epic, and you could make the case that if they can't treat the employees better, then the project doesn't deserve to exist.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#164

Post by bgee »

As a tech worker (game industry or not), what should I expect when/if I join a union? A 3-minute googling only gave me very vague answers like higher salary and better workplace safety.

Is there a potential pro and con somewhere?

e.g. If I get better compensation, would the union take a percentage cut from it? Or it's a fixed union deduction?

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#165

Post by ianmobbs »

friendlybus wrote: post #159
ianmobbs wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any sources to back that up? The film industry is one of the most heavily unionized industries in America (if not the most!) and indie films are as popular as ever. The only way I can think of a union hindering independent content is that more people actually enjoy the company they work at and attempt to "strike it out on their own" less often.

I am a game dev. Disappointing to see this reaction. Here's a direct example of union rules slowing down the little guy in film: https://youtu.be/LRVwlif6th0?t=171 Striking out on their own is the benefit I am talking about. I don't understand your perspective of independence.

> Striking out on their own is the benefit I am talking about.

So are you saying we should keep employees overworked and underpaid so they're more likely to leave their current employer...?

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#166

Post by snarf21 »

friendlybus wrote: post #155

Here is a direct example of unions slowing down the little guy in the entertainment industry: https://youtu.be/LRVwlif6th0?t=171 Niko has to cut costs to make low budget films and the union mandates someone watch the camera feed for the director, completely unnecessarily in the modern era. The film industry is notorious for the boundaries around union and non-union work. Gary Oldman's decline of a role in Star Wars u…

I generally agree. What we do need is better worker protections and consumer protections. Get rid of no-competes. Get rid of right to work statutes. Add mandatory retirement contributions. Add mandatory and standard severance packages.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#167

Post by jahaja »

Kalium wrote: post #160
jahaja wrote: post #131

How Americans can be so anti-union by default is really beyond me when looking at the facts at the ground: * A culture of overwork (especially in the game industry). * No vacation. * No parental leave. * No sick leave. * At-will-employment (which inherently causes massive under-reporting of things like sexual harassment in the workplace due to the fear of losing ones livelihood, and please spare me the "actually it's…

> What do you actually have to lose? In some parts of the US, the answer is "Our industry". There are areas where a reasonable argument can be made that overweening unions played a key role in setting up the local economy for cataclysmic failure. Detroit is an example. That said , video games production doesn't look like that right now. It's just perhaps worth considering that people's fears might not be wholly merit…

But again. This doesn't hold up to a straight forward comparison to many European countries. If labour costs would be so detrimental to employment we'd still be queuing to the transatlantic ocean liners.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#168

Post by username90 »

ianmobbs wrote: post #151
username90 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would a big union care about a small company?

If it can't afford to provide for its employees, why should a small company exist?

No game developer is living on starvation wages, it is just a question of how much they get. If a game company can provide for its people and offer enough incentives that its workers aren't fleeing to better jobs it deserves to exist.

So why aren't the people leaving then? Maybe they love the game they are working on and prefer bad conditions over working on something else? Maybe they have non-standard backgrounds and would be forced to wash plates if not for this company? It isn't clear to me that a union would make the life of these people better.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#169

Post by Symbiote »

legitster wrote: post #162
jahaja wrote: post #131

How Americans can be so anti-union by default is really beyond me when looking at the facts at the ground: * A culture of overwork (especially in the game industry). * No vacation. * No parental leave. * No sick leave. * At-will-employment (which inherently causes massive under-reporting of things like sexual harassment in the workplace due to the fear of losing ones livelihood, and please spare me the "actually it's…

Americans are very used to switching jobs to take better options and do not suffer bad bosses for long. I would say it is pretty rare to actually have a job with no vacation or leave. Unions in the US can feel stifling, as they only rewarding if you can stick with the same job and position for a long time. It's not a very American mindset to stay with a job and make demands when you can just bounce to a slightly bett…

A union position has immediate reward, if they've negotiated better vacation, sick leave, and job security etc than the alternative.

Re: Major union launches campaign to organize video game and tech workers

#170

Post by friendlybus »

aabeshou wrote: post #53
usefulcat wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that kind of development model was that much of a liability, you'd think at least one studio or company would have figured that out and would now be killing it as a result. I suspect it's just one of many factors, and probably not that important by itself. The bottom line is that the supply of game developers has historically outpaced the demand. There are simply a lot of people who really want to make games, and…

> The bottom line is that the supply of game developers has historically outpaced the demand. There are simply a lot of people who really want to make games, and are willing to put up with those work conditions. If game developers don't feel exploited by their conditions, then they probably won't join/create the union. If they do feel exploited, then the union will be a good thing. > Given that, it's hard to see a wa…

The employees at large companies like EA and Acti-Blizz and other big corps will join a union that will gain them more benefits at their day job. The feeder schools and universities will start getting all their students into union positions.

The independent 20% will be muscled out of relevance as the union can simply ex-communicate members that break the rules and the employees will follow union rules. Independents will have to toe union rules to get anything done and not really be independent anymore, just a cache of jobs that the union is too big or risk averse to do.

An artist run game industry will die (like United Artists used to be in film) and you will see the game industry become a studio model and institutionalized like Disney.

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