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EU beckons Indian tech talent

economictimes.indiatimes.com

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Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#151

Post by huffmsa »

rock_v wrote: post #147
huffmsa wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GP thinks its about "getting even", as if China and India were naive, noble backwaters the devious Europeans pulled the wool over and secretly exploited in 1700s. When really, they got out competed in trade and on the battlefield by the Europeans.

So, it’s fair if a European gets out competed in the labor market today.

Of course it is. But it's not the European companies getting outcompeted, it's the individual laborers.

So it's equally as fair for those laborers (voters) to say "no more importing cheap competition". The UK already has. It's incredibly difficult to bring in foreign employees.

Edit, addendum, ignore the part about companies, though you'd said European firms.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#152

Post by mambru »

foepys wrote: post #132
peaceanwar wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something must be going horribly wrong in Greece. You can live easily of 30k in the Netherlands, I would make that to even 25k. Yes, that would mean having no car and using a bike to get around (which is common).

I think the key phrase in GP's post is "supporting a child".

In Netherlands that is probably subsidized.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#153

Post by Fjordbored »

Isinlor wrote: post #95
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #16

I wish EU work visa restrictions would be as high as the US ones. Tech salaries in Western Europe are low enough as it is and the whole developer shortage the employers keep crying about to the media is a scam to justify lax visa restrictions for cheaper workforce from abroad. Under current conditions EU companies can hire pretty much anyone across the globe. Do you think SV salaries would be as high as they are if t…

> as it increases the inequality Really?! Speaking about inequality is so hypocritical in this context that it just boils my blood. I could understand if you were having trouble to earn a living. But you can easily live in the Western Europe on even €30k. EASILY! And happily, and stress free. Your kids will get free education, free collage. You will get tons of vacations, 38 hours work week. But no, you want more. Yo…

Ok, neo-liberal shill.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#154

Post by exceptione »

peaceanwar wrote: post #129
inertiatic wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But you can easily live in the Western Europe on even €30k. EASILY! I have trouble supporting a child in Greece, with a gross household income of around 50k. I most certainly do not lead a luxurious life. I shudder to think how this would work out in Western Europe where rents are even higher than the ~500 euro most people pay here for a medium sized apartment.

Something must be going horribly wrong in Greece. You can live easily of 30k in the Netherlands, I would make that to even 25k. Yes, that would mean having no car and using a bike to get around (which is common).

You cannot rent a home on that income in the public market. In the areas where you could bike to work that would mean waiting 15+ years for a social housing home. Renting a room in the back lands of NL is possible, but you would need a car because public transport is only somewhat useful in the Randstad area.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#155

Post by mk89 »

Isinlor wrote: post #95
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #16

I wish EU work visa restrictions would be as high as the US ones. Tech salaries in Western Europe are low enough as it is and the whole developer shortage the employers keep crying about to the media is a scam to justify lax visa restrictions for cheaper workforce from abroad. Under current conditions EU companies can hire pretty much anyone across the globe. Do you think SV salaries would be as high as they are if t…

> as it increases the inequality Really?! Speaking about inequality is so hypocritical in this context that it just boils my blood. I could understand if you were having trouble to earn a living. But you can easily live in the Western Europe on even €30k. EASILY! And happily, and stress free. Your kids will get free education, free collage. You will get tons of vacations, 38 hours work week. But no, you want more. Yo…

> But no, you want more. You want luxury life, you want to keep the rest of the world underneath you.

Why does wanting more imply having people underneath you?

Your comment is full of frustration, hatred and anger, it doesn't have any argument in it. I hope you can see that.

The main issue stems from the fact that Europeans have a different lifestyle, therefore, moving forward for them implies having actually higher wages, not lower ones, in order to have at the end of the month some free days of vacation, health insurance for the family, etc etc.

The comment you are answering to says exactly that. It didn't mention anything like "let's send them back" or whatever it is, as you seem to imply with your words. It was an honest observation (backed up by economists, by the way, just google that) about the fact that by giving more work to people who get less money won't do anything else than lowering the salaries for the entire sector. Of course, it will give people from other countries a possibility to work and make it, however, as a local citizen wishing to improve my country and the average income, why would I care about people coming from other countries? I mean, what do I get in return?

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#156

Post by inertiatic »

peaceanwar wrote: post #129
inertiatic wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But you can easily live in the Western Europe on even €30k. EASILY! I have trouble supporting a child in Greece, with a gross household income of around 50k. I most certainly do not lead a luxurious life. I shudder to think how this would work out in Western Europe where rents are even higher than the ~500 euro most people pay here for a medium sized apartment.

Something must be going horribly wrong in Greece. You can live easily of 30k in the Netherlands, I would make that to even 25k. Yes, that would mean having no car and using a bike to get around (which is common).

I might be exaggerating, but I feel like I'm not.

Most parents I know pay almost 600 for rent (amenities not included, so add another 100, and quite a bit more if it's a colder winter). Fun to note that the minimum wage is currently around 500 euro, AirBnB is a hell of a drug. Add to that up to 400 for childcare a month, per young child.

Tax rate is near 40% at that income level, so let's say it's a net 30k out of the 50k. So that's 2.5k a month.

I will spare a list of the other required monthly expenses but it shouldn't be hard to see that it's hard to save up enough to ever buy property or to be safe against any event that costs any significant amount of money.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#158

Post by exceptione »

mambru wrote: post #152
foepys wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the key phrase in GP's post is "supporting a child".

In Netherlands that is probably subsidized.

Partly, yes. Still, parent paints a picture that in today's economic climate is not practically true.

I have (single living) colleagues from abroad who learn it now the hard way. Hopping from one airbnb to the other, moving al their stuff each time. Doing this for months and they start to despair now. Even local youngsters cannot afford a home anymore.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#159

Post by mk89 »

inertiatic wrote: post #104
Isinlor wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as it increases the inequality Really?! Speaking about inequality is so hypocritical in this context that it just boils my blood. I could understand if you were having trouble to earn a living. But you can easily live in the Western Europe on even €30k. EASILY! And happily, and stress free. Your kids will get free education, free collage. You will get tons of vacations, 38 hours work week. But no, you want more. Yo…

>But you can easily live in the Western Europe on even €30k. EASILY! I have trouble supporting a child in Greece, with a gross household income of around 50k. I most certainly do not lead a luxurious life. I shudder to think how this would work out in Western Europe where rents are even higher than the ~500 euro most people pay here for a medium sized apartment.

I think everything is relative. I have met and I know many indians that have a lifestyle that we (Europeans) would never follow or think about. That's probably the "luxury" that the parent comment is talking about. As usual, this is where two cultures tend to diverge. For "them" we live a stressful lifestyle, etc., etc., because we need to make money. For "us", they have a laid back lifestyle that we can't understand: how do you want to provide for your 4 kids, when you have so little money? Etc etc.

Unfortunately, this sort of thinking is very persistent in people coming from such countries that tend to see us as "weak" or "luxurious" people, because such a lifestyle is light years away from where they come from. I don't say this with the "white mindset". It's just that we Western people are talking about reducing the working hours to 30 per week, because we want to spend more time with our family, want to live stress-free, etc. etc., and possibly keep a good salary. This clashes with the old traditional capitalistic way of doing business: let's hire cheap labor from abroad, so we make more money. The main parent comment is right about it. It's proven that this doesn't lead to anything than more cheap labor.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#160

Post by faned »

Isinlor wrote: post #95
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #16

I wish EU work visa restrictions would be as high as the US ones. Tech salaries in Western Europe are low enough as it is and the whole developer shortage the employers keep crying about to the media is a scam to justify lax visa restrictions for cheaper workforce from abroad. Under current conditions EU companies can hire pretty much anyone across the globe. Do you think SV salaries would be as high as they are if t…

> as it increases the inequality Really?! Speaking about inequality is so hypocritical in this context that it just boils my blood. I could understand if you were having trouble to earn a living. But you can easily live in the Western Europe on even €30k. EASILY! And happily, and stress free. Your kids will get free education, free collage. You will get tons of vacations, 38 hours work week. But no, you want more. Yo…

If you believe this—truly—is it safe to assume you support open borders for Israel?
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