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EU beckons Indian tech talent

economictimes.indiatimes.com

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Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#141

Post by thbr99 »

tzone wrote: post #136
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #16

I wish EU work visa restrictions would be as high as the US ones. Tech salaries in Western Europe are low enough as it is and the whole developer shortage the employers keep crying about to the media is a scam to justify lax visa restrictions for cheaper workforce from abroad. Under current conditions EU companies can hire pretty much anyone across the globe. Do you think SV salaries would be as high as they are if t…

This seems kind of backwards to be honest. The crackdown on H1-Bs will definitely have long term negative consequences on US tech economy, not positive consequences. A lot of major progress in tech was possible specifically because it was very easy to get h1-b visas especially for immigrants who came to study in US colleges. Imo the issue with European immigration system is that it isn't welcoming for permanent immig…

This. The culture part. I have worked in US,CA,EU. I felt US was more accepting than any other country. There is a feeling of being part of US society even though you are a temporary worker. There is very less cultural discrimination in the US.

EU,CA are a conservative xenophobic bunch. Many immigrants in Canada who are now citizens still stick their native countries flags on their cars. I have only one question for them, if you like your native country so much, why don't you go back ? If you accepted Canadian citizenship, be like one.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#142

Post by d44m »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #134
d44m wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU also has a trade deal (agreement) with India that comprises BOTH goods and services (the human export thingy).

Yes, a trade deal for goods and services not a visa free immigration for work. When I have to go to India, business trip or tourist I also need a visa.

You do need a visa to visit India and likewise, the Indians wanting to work in the EU need visa too.

I don't think there is any talk of visa-free travel for Indian tech workers to the EU.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#143

Post by barry-cotter »

inertiatic wrote: post #104
Isinlor wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as it increases the inequality Really?! Speaking about inequality is so hypocritical in this context that it just boils my blood. I could understand if you were having trouble to earn a living. But you can easily live in the Western Europe on even €30k. EASILY! And happily, and stress free. Your kids will get free education, free collage. You will get tons of vacations, 38 hours work week. But no, you want more. Yo…

>But you can easily live in the Western Europe on even €30k. EASILY! I have trouble supporting a child in Greece, with a gross household income of around 50k. I most certainly do not lead a luxurious life. I shudder to think how this would work out in Western Europe where rents are even higher than the ~500 euro most people pay here for a medium sized apartment.

You’re on roughly triple the average household income for Greece. You may have trouble supporting a child in a manner appropriate to someone of your socioeconomic background.

> The average household net-adjusted income in Greece is USD 17, 700 annually. It is considerably lower than the OCED average of USD 33,604.

https://destinationscanner.com/average-salary-in-greece/

> The Gross Domestic Product per capita in Greece was last recorded at 25140.70 US dollars in 2018, when adjusted by purchasing power parity (PPP). (Roughly €22K)

https://tradingeconomics.com/greece/gdp-per-capita-ppp

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#144

Post by vsskanth »

madengr wrote: post #121
dmingod666 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yea, I've heard of horror stories of decades of wait time to get a green card.. its a horrible move IMO.

One can just come here illegally; everyone else is doing it. Seems most of the tech hubs are sanctuary cities, so your odds of deportation are nil.

Don't know if you're sarcastic. But high skilled workers would rather leave for other countries or go back home than become illegal immigrants.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#145

Post by close04 »

Isinlor wrote: post #95
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #16

I wish EU work visa restrictions would be as high as the US ones. Tech salaries in Western Europe are low enough as it is and the whole developer shortage the employers keep crying about to the media is a scam to justify lax visa restrictions for cheaper workforce from abroad. Under current conditions EU companies can hire pretty much anyone across the globe. Do you think SV salaries would be as high as they are if t…

> as it increases the inequality Really?! Speaking about inequality is so hypocritical in this context that it just boils my blood. I could understand if you were having trouble to earn a living. But you can easily live in the Western Europe on even €30k. EASILY! And happily, and stress free. Your kids will get free education, free collage. You will get tons of vacations, 38 hours work week. But no, you want more. Yo…

> But no, you want more

Don't you? And since you also do doesn't it make the rest of your point not only moot but also hypocritical? Isn't this the exact reason someone would move from a poorer country to a richer one? Not because they can't live in one but because they want a better life in the other. You can easily live without a lot of things. But sometimes it's not only about living but about how you live.

> Letting poor people compete with you on fair terms does not increase inequality.

You're being very libertine with the suggestion that everyone else in this conversation hates "poor people" and must be racists. "Fair terms" would imply all equal. Are you competing on quality or price? Because winning solely on price is a sure way to lower everyone's wages over time but also lower the quality. Doesn't this push better qualified people to places where "fairness" implies more than accepting the lowest possible salary?

> Are Indians and Chinese somehow second rate people? They do not deserve to even compete with the White Elite of Western Europe?

This makes you sound incredibly racist.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#146

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

Isinlor wrote: post #95
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #16

I wish EU work visa restrictions would be as high as the US ones. Tech salaries in Western Europe are low enough as it is and the whole developer shortage the employers keep crying about to the media is a scam to justify lax visa restrictions for cheaper workforce from abroad. Under current conditions EU companies can hire pretty much anyone across the globe. Do you think SV salaries would be as high as they are if t…

> as it increases the inequality Really?! Speaking about inequality is so hypocritical in this context that it just boils my blood. I could understand if you were having trouble to earn a living. But you can easily live in the Western Europe on even €30k. EASILY! And happily, and stress free. Your kids will get free education, free collage. You will get tons of vacations, 38 hours work week. But no, you want more. Yo…

> But you can easily live in the Western Europe on even €30k. EASILY! And happily, and stress free.

If that was the case, birthrates wouldn't be so low in Europe. Free school and healthcare doesn't support your family when rents are higher than ever and fewer people than ever can afford to buy a property to raise a family in.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#147

Post by rock_v »

huffmsa wrote: post #109
pnako wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're attacking a straw man here. Chinese and Indian people can certainly compete with European people, and they do it everyday. But they can do it from China and India.

The GP thinks its about "getting even", as if China and India were naive, noble backwaters the devious Europeans pulled the wool over and secretly exploited in 1700s. When really, they got out competed in trade and on the battlefield by the Europeans.

So, it’s fair if a European gets out competed in the labor market today.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#148

Post by anovikov »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #44
anovikov wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem is, there is internal migration in Europe which you can't possibly close this way. Romania is as poor as China and has better tech talent speaking European languages a lot better. No amount of visa restrictions will protect you from that. "hire pretty much anyone across the globe" - well only if you are prepared to pay 1.5x average salary in your country (Blue Card), so not for cheap positions, will start fro…

Romania or Eastern Europe is not the reason tech salaries are low in Europe as the country may be poor but tech workers there make almost as much as their counterparts in western Europe due to low taxes and high competition for talent. A Romanian tech grad can make €2k NET salary out of University which factoring the low COL is one of the reasons very few chose to migrate west nowadays.

Real reason of course, is that they can't pay more. Value they create is so much smaller due to the lower investment-driven leverage. Anyone who tried to raise VC funding in EU will confirm that.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#149

Post by madengr »

vsskanth wrote: post #144
madengr wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One can just come here illegally; everyone else is doing it. Seems most of the tech hubs are sanctuary cities, so your odds of deportation are nil.

Don't know if you're sarcastic. But high skilled workers would rather leave for other countries or go back home than become illegal immigrants.

Yes, sarcasm.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#150

Post by webpaymentsguy »

barry-cotter wrote: post #143
inertiatic wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But you can easily live in the Western Europe on even €30k. EASILY! I have trouble supporting a child in Greece, with a gross household income of around 50k. I most certainly do not lead a luxurious life. I shudder to think how this would work out in Western Europe where rents are even higher than the ~500 euro most people pay here for a medium sized apartment.

You’re on roughly triple the average household income for Greece. You may have trouble supporting a child in a manner appropriate to someone of your socioeconomic background. > The average household net-adjusted income in Greece is USD 17, 700 annually. It is considerably lower than the OCED average of USD 33,604. https://destinationscanner.com/average-salary-in-greece/ > The Gross Domestic Product per capita in Gree…

Ehh it might just be that the cost of living in some parts of Greece are much lower than in others, making the average salary much lower than the requisite for covering cost of living for more expensive regions.

Numbeo seems to support this based on CoL in Athens: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Athens

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