Oh Europe, pillaged the natural resources of India for centuries.
Now you're stealing it's best and brightest for your own gain.
Never change.
EU beckons Indian tech talent
131–140 of 250 posts
Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
>But you can easily live in the Western Europe on even €30k. EASILY! I have trouble supporting a child in Greece, with a gross household income of around 50k. I most certainly do not lead a luxurious life. I shudder to think how this would work out in Western Europe where rents are even higher than the ~500 euro most people pay here for a medium sized apartment.
Something must be going horribly wrong in Greece. You can live easily of 30k in the Netherlands, I would make that to even 25k. Yes, that would mean having no car and using a bike to get around (which is common).
I think the key phrase in GP's post is "supporting a child".
Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent
#133I wish EU work visa restrictions would be as high as the US ones. Tech salaries in Western Europe are low enough as it is and the whole developer shortage the employers keep crying about to the media is a scam to justify lax visa restrictions for cheaper workforce from abroad. Under current conditions EU companies can hire pretty much anyone across the globe. Do you think SV salaries would be as high as they are if t…
> as it increases the inequality Really?! Speaking about inequality is so hypocritical in this context that it just boils my blood. I could understand if you were having trouble to earn a living. But you can easily live in the Western Europe on even €30k. EASILY! And happily, and stress free. Your kids will get free education, free collage. You will get tons of vacations, 38 hours work week. But no, you want more. Yo…
>But no, you want more. You want luxury life, you want to keep the rest of the world underneath you.
Is the US also wanting me underneath them by not giving me a work Visa to work at FAANG in SV?
Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
>It's not conventional thinking, but this is how trade works. Trading cars for migrant workers is exactly how trade doesn't work. You're talking nonsense here. EU has a trade and migration deal between the EU member states, not with India.
EU also has a trade deal (agreement) with India that comprises BOTH goods and services (the human export thingy).
Yes, a trade deal for goods and services not a visa free immigration for work.
When I have to go to India, business trip or tourist I also need a visa.
Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
> as it increases the inequality Really?! Speaking about inequality is so hypocritical in this context that it just boils my blood. I could understand if you were having trouble to earn a living. But you can easily live in the Western Europe on even €30k. EASILY! And happily, and stress free. Your kids will get free education, free collage. You will get tons of vacations, 38 hours work week. But no, you want more. Yo…
>But you can easily live in the Western Europe on even €30k. EASILY! And happily, and stress free. Yeah, please take me and my family to this magic lala land. You can also survive on the streets with no money. That doesn't mean it's a lifestyle you should aspire to.
I don't know why this being downvoted so much. A family requires a lot more money than being single. Are so many people here single without children that don't know or care about this?
Raising children on 30k€ in a city in Western Europe is scratching on the government defined poverty line.
Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent
#136I wish EU work visa restrictions would be as high as the US ones. Tech salaries in Western Europe are low enough as it is and the whole developer shortage the employers keep crying about to the media is a scam to justify lax visa restrictions for cheaper workforce from abroad. Under current conditions EU companies can hire pretty much anyone across the globe. Do you think SV salaries would be as high as they are if t…
This seems kind of backwards to be honest. The crackdown on H1-Bs will definitely have long term negative consequences on US tech economy, not positive consequences. A lot of major progress in tech was possible specifically because it was very easy to get h1-b visas especially for immigrants who came to study in US colleges.
Imo the issue with European immigration system is that it isn't welcoming for permanent immigration. So high skilled people go to Europe, earn some money and then go back home because they are never accepted as equal citizens in most wester European countries (both by law, but even more importantly, by culture).
In US on the other hand, immigrants can settle in much more easily and call it their new home, and become full fledged part of the society both by law and culturally. Especially in areas like SV and New York.
When you look at leadership (i.e. C-titles, VPs, Founders) of a lot of tech companies in SV and New York, first and second generation immigrants are vastly over-represented.
EDIT: also guess what is going to happen if immigration becomes harder? the outsourcing companies will get better and do the job cheaper remotely from India, so even more of the tech work will just get outsourced, meaning there will be even less tech jobs in Europe. You really can't stop the inevitable consequences of the global free market, unless you want to go full protectionist. So acquiring and KEEPING skilled labor through immigration is probably a much smarter long term choice compared to protectionist immigration strategies.
Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
If there were not a shortage of API devs, salary for programmers wouldn’t have gone through the roof. You can’t just say because there are a couple million programmer there are definitely no shortage of them. The market demand just happened to be higher.
Since when is €42k salary considered as being through the roof?
That’s more of a chicken and egg problem. As you’ve said, if there were no foreign talent availability, prices would have been lot higher. Just look at the USA.
Whether you want to keep that is another thing in itself. From what I see, the availability for large amount of beginners (Not necessarily foreign, see bootcamp) does not affect the market value for experienced programmers at all.
Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent
#138I wish EU work visa restrictions would be as high as the US ones. Tech salaries in Western Europe are low enough as it is and the whole developer shortage the employers keep crying about to the media is a scam to justify lax visa restrictions for cheaper workforce from abroad. Under current conditions EU companies can hire pretty much anyone across the globe. Do you think SV salaries would be as high as they are if t…
> as it increases the inequality Really?! Speaking about inequality is so hypocritical in this context that it just boils my blood. I could understand if you were having trouble to earn a living. But you can easily live in the Western Europe on even €30k. EASILY! And happily, and stress free. Your kids will get free education, free collage. You will get tons of vacations, 38 hours work week. But no, you want more. Yo…
> EASILY! And happily, and stress free. Your kids will get free education, free collage. You will get tons of vacations, 38 hours work week.
Most Europeans can’t afford a house anymore. The fear for a lot is that excess immigration and taking on refugees will break the social welfare you just mentioned.
I actually agree with a lot of your points though and envision a similar future that will be less about borders.
But you wrap it in such a vicious rant I imagine you are alienating people from your idea more than winning them over.
Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent
#139It's odd to talk about EU as one. I can hire from EU countries that are on-par or even cheaper than India (at some skill level).
Yes I am talking about some of Balkans (Serbia, Greece), Baltics (Estonia, Lithuania), Eastern EU (Ukraine, Bulgaria, Romania) where the rates can be $20-30 an hour for very decent devs.
Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
> as it increases the inequality Really?! Speaking about inequality is so hypocritical in this context that it just boils my blood. I could understand if you were having trouble to earn a living. But you can easily live in the Western Europe on even €30k. EASILY! And happily, and stress free. Your kids will get free education, free collage. You will get tons of vacations, 38 hours work week. But no, you want more. Yo…
>But no, you want more. You want luxury life, you want to keep the rest of the world underneath you. Is the US also wanting me underneath them by not giving me a work Visa to work at FAANG in SV?
>Is the US also wanting me underneath them by not giving me a work Visa to work FAANG?
Arguably yes based on his comment.
And for the record, you can work for several FAANG companies in the EU. Why not just start working?