Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says • Hacker News Board

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#341

Post by jnaddef » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 11:07 PM UTC

topkai22 wrote: post #326

romwell wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That means that most people didn't even figure out how to attempt one, because the means were taken away. You should compare with suicides/suicide attempt rates in general population (or general prison population) to make this statement.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/19/health/prison-suicides-massac... General prison suicide rate is 20/100,000, which is almost identical to the male general population rate in the US (21.1) ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_r... ) I didn't quickly get data on attempt/completion in prison, but the attempt/completion rate is the general pop is ~30 attempts/completion, and the completion rate is d…

Again you are comparing apples with oranges. Outside of prison, nothing prevents you from attempting suicide. Whether you succeed or not depends mostly on your resolve and how you do it.

In a perfect prison, suicide attempt should be 0%, not because people are happy, but because inmates should have no way to even attempt a suicide.

If at some point a mistake is made and an inmate manages to kill himself, it will be a 1 attempt/completion and going to the conclusion that prisons make it easy to kill yourself does not seem right.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#342

Post by pnako » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 11:08 PM UTC

jowday wrote: post #37

bsamuels wrote: post #5

I'm fascinated by the idea that someone could have killed and successfully covered up a murder this high profile. How do you handle the guards? How do you keep the other inmates quiet? Can you get away with bribing a single guard or is a larger operation needed? If you bribe people, how do you get the money to them? How do you keep them quiet when the inevitable investigation happens? I don't think it's impossible, b…

It's likely Epstein was tied up with CIA. Once they enter the picture, everything's fair game. https://observer.com/2019/07/jeffrey-epstein-spy-intelligenc...

Why would a CIA agent do blackmail against American and western targets? That's not how it works.

If Epstein was killed, it's quite possible he was killed by US counter intelligence.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#343

Post by malvosenior » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 11:08 PM UTC

topmonk wrote: post #340

malvosenior wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The absolute failure of the courts to enact justice in the Epstein case is a great example of why people should think for themselves and not outsource their sense of right and wrong to third parties. I personally do not believe that Gates (one of the most successful people to have ever lived) was naive enough to not know who and what Epstein was. I also see Gates' attempt to hide his relationship with Epstein as furt…

But that's mob justice. I'm not saying you're wrong, but failure of our courts can lead to extraordinarily bad times.

It most definitely will lead to bad times!

That being said, it's not like people are out with actual pitchforks. We're talking about people on the internet criticizing Bill Gates' affiliation with Epstein. Gates is still rich, powerful and free from any real repercussions other than a deserved hit to his reputation (and really, barely even that).

Sadly I think we'll never see true justice since those tasked with it seem completely unwilling to do their job in this case.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#344

Post by heavenlyblue » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 11:09 PM UTC

harry8 wrote: post #289

api wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's similar to what keeps financial bubbles and Ponzi schemes going: when the money is flowing, nobody asks questions. Epstein threw a lot of money around. The UK had Jimmy Saville and a similar story. He raised a lot of money for various important people and charities so nobody paid attention to the fact that he appears to have been a serial rapist for decades.

Saville was a friend of Prince Andrew's elder brother, the future King Charles. Don't overlook the snobbery and friend of royalty aspect. The Windsor boys have been very, um, unlucky in their choice of friends. Despite the fact they have advisors and the secret service keeps tabs on them so they aren't compromised by spies or assassinated. It really is extraordinary that they were both so unlucky and so badly comprom…

Well, that only gives me an impression that those Windsor boys were simply useless to anyone else.

You are not unlucky - you are simply coming from a powerful family but otherwise useless, so the only people who active try to be your friends are people who can’t be friends to someone useful.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#345

Post by alasdair_ » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 11:10 PM UTC

antocv wrote: post #300

alasdair_ wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

>Uh huh, care to share your findings with historians about that?

I'm pretty sure historians are already aware. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

In terms of numbers, Stalin's genocide was almost twice as large as the holocaust.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#346

Post by im3w1l » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 11:16 PM UTC

apetresc wrote: post #96

shadowgovt wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. The hard conspiracy theory - that some rich agent with something to lose took determined action to subvert the prison's protections and assassinate him - doesn't hold water for me. I am, however, willing to entertain the softer conspiracy theory - that people in prison (prisoners and staff) hate pedophiles and people who enable pedophilia, and the guy was, perhaps, given more opportunity than average to "fix his…

Maybe in some more run-of-the-mill cases, sure. But even the dimmest staff member must have been well aware that this particular pedophile was on the verge of testifying against an entire network of other pedophiles. If you hate pedophiles so much you're willing to risk your life/career just to let one of them commit suicide, surely you also hate them enough to wait just a little bit longer to prevent a bunch more of…

Assuming they are rational. But it's evident to me that in a lot of cases pedophilia flips a switch in peoples brains and rage completely crowds out reason.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#347

Post by Teever » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 11:19 PM UTC

shsjxjbsbs wrote: post #329

Teever wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An interesting comment that I've seen repeated and voted to the top of any post on reddit regarding the Gates-Epstein association is something along the lines of 'Gates is too aloof and nerdy to be interested in the wares that Epstein was peddling.' I've seen it many times and it has always struck me as the kind of spin that PR firm would write and disseminate.

If you see people expressing an opinion that’s useful for the rich and powerful, it’s appealing to imagine that the people expressing that opinion are shills. But I think saying such out loud lowers the quality of discourse. If we go around accusing one people we disagree with of being shills, we aren’t learning or participating in an exchange of ideas, which is the point of a discussion forum like this. There’s a pe…

I don't believe that everyone who says this kind of thing is being paid to do so. What I think instead is that this kind of thing is invented by someone who is paid to make up these kind of misdirecting and memetic statements and that they then disseminate these kinds of messages on mediums like reddit where they know that they will propagate.

Another example of these kinds of statements would be "Elon Musk is like a real life Tony Stark." Do I think that every Elon fanboy is paid to say this online? No, of course not. Do I think that Elon Musk like many celebrities has a public image crafted by a PR firm and that this kind of jingo-istic soundbite probably originated from that firm? Absolutely.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#348

Post by detail-oriented » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 11:20 PM UTC

code_duck wrote: post #248

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the old country, there is a concept of krysha, which technically refers to protection paid to government for protection ( not unlike mafia ), but, for example, in Russia, referred to money paid for protection to the security apparatus. I find it difficult to believe Epstein had no protectors. Natually, now nonone really knew the guy.

There's some speculation that he maintained his operational security, such as it was, through the threat of exposure or blackmail. That is, he brought prominent and powerful people into his fold, and then he had power over them. It's similar to how spy organizations intentionally place people in compromising situations, like hiring prostitutes for them, and record it on video.

Isn't video of putins predecessor with prostitutes part of his rise to power?

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#349

Post by BLKNSLVR » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 11:25 PM UTC

This may be the kind of thought bubble that's not welcome on HN, but the Epstein situation of high-powered contacts, the decade-old non-prosecution agreement (for child-sex crimes!) and the various inconsistencies surrounding Epstein's death as described in the article, form a seriously twisted situation when combined with the political rhetoric around end-to-end encryption and societal surveillance in general.

Politicians chanting, essentially, "Think of the children", is phenomenally hypocritical when layered on top of the Epstein situation.

The US and Five Eyes world-spanning communications surveillance operations couldn't even get this guy jailed for child-sex crimes?! How much is it costing for this wholly-ineffectual-at-what-its-claimed-purpose-is infrastructure?

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#350

Post by catalogia » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 11:25 PM UTC

moltensodium wrote: post #107

Yeah, outside of Lee Harvey Oswald this guy was the most important prisoner in the history of the USA. The fact that he just "suicided" in prison and we're all supposed to move on and share links about suicide awareness is utter nonsense. If the corporate media doesn't get to the bottom of this then someone else will, it's just a matter of time. Everyone is so tired of being lied to by authority figures.

> "If the corporate media doesn't get to the bottom of this then someone else will, it's just a matter of time."

If the example of Lee Harvey Oswald is anything to go by, your optimism might be misplaced..