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Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

miamiherald.com

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Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#291

Post by malvosenior »

neom wrote: post #283
blackrobot wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He may not be a suspect , but it is troubling when someone befriends a known pedophile: Mr. Gates started the relationship after Mr. Epstein was convicted of sex crimes. from the NYT article: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/12/business/jeffrey-epstein-...

I have a close relative who is a pedophile. I still give them my time. Don't underestimate human compassion, regardless of your value judgement on it.

Are you saying that Gates was being compassionate toward Epstein? Gates hid the depth of his affiliation with Epstein until this NYT article came out. He knew it was wrong.

Much more likely is that Epstein had dirt on Gates and/or connections Gates wanted.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#292

Post by AndrewBissell »

thrower123 wrote: post #285
code_duck wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's some speculation that he maintained his operational security, such as it was, through the threat of exposure or blackmail. That is, he brought prominent and powerful people into his fold, and then he had power over them. It's similar to how spy organizations intentionally place people in compromising situations, like hiring prostitutes for them, and record it on video.

I cannot believe that he didn't have a deadman switch set up just in case something like this happened to him. Somewhere or wheres, there has to be a couple boxes of hard drives that could burn the world down if they ever came to light. Although I may be being optimistic; the Panama Papers never amounted to anything.

After he was arrested the FBI raided his mansion and took into its possession a large cache of CDs labeled "young with " which he kept in his safe. There were also hints that people visited his private island and his New Mexico ranch (which the FBI bizarrely still has not raided) before he was killed. So they may have confiscated the materials for any dead man's switch.

Also, if Epstein was indeed an intelligence agency cutout then he was surely watched very closely at all times, so there might not have been an opening for him to set one up (or he might have been told in no uncertain terms what would happen if he tried). Or (most likely of all IMO) after the sweetheart 2008 deal he simply thought he was untouchable and above the law, so why would he need to take precautions against being assassinated?

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#293

Post by magduf »

shadowgovt wrote: post #101
throwaway743 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also the cameras just so happened to not have been recording at the time of the incident... doesn't seem coincidental considering his profile and potential to bring down some big name elites

This is the problem with conspiracy theories... Avoidable accidents and conspiracy theories have the same fact pattern, which is an overlap of failure modes that should have been preventable but weren't prevented. Was the Titanic disaster a tragic accident borne of negligence... or a conspiracy to assassinate John Jacob Astor and make it look like an accident? A lot had to go wrong to make an unsinkable ship sink. Wh…

I thought the Titanic disaster was pretty well-explained as an accident caused by incompetence and hubris. The ship wasn't "unsinkable"; they just advertised it that way, but it was no match for a big iceberg. The ship was sailing through an area with icebergs, and going fast too, and it was nighttime. IIRC, the captain was in a rush to get to the destination (sorry, it's been a while since I watched Cameron's movie). Really, all it took was the decision to go full-speed through an area with icebergs at night to cause that disaster. Then other stuff afterwards was sheer incompetence and classism, like not fully filling the lifeboats.

Assassinating one person by sinking a whole ship is a pretty crazy way to kill someone; it's surely far easier to just hire someone to club him when he's walking the street somewhere. However, with Epstein, there's no such similarity: he was the only one to die, and since he was locked up in prison, anyone wanting to kill him really didn't have much choice, if they wanted to get him before he testified against someone. And there do seem to be a disturbing number of things that went "wrong" for this to happen.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#294

Post by magduf »

stickfigure wrote: post #145
belltaco wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was two guards that both fell asleep. Okay that might be coincidence. What about the two cameras that failed at the same time? They should publish failure rates of cameras at that facility. When was the last time two sets of electronics failed at the exact same time randomly? If there was a voltage spike or something that killed them both how come it didn't affect anything else at the facility? Maybe they were EMP…

What makes you think the cameras were working beforehand? They could have been this way for months or years. What percentage of cameras on BART trains are working at any given time? When was the last time you tested your backups?

If they had been broken for a long time before this, why would they put the highest-profile prisoner in the entire country in there without fixing them first, or moving him to a cell where the cameras do work?

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#295

Post by magduf »

shadowgovt wrote: post #267
KevinEldon wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pathologist from the article claims "Epstein suffered multiple fractures in his neck that are more consistent with strangulation than suicide by hanging". This is a forensic claim first, but one that also raises questions about the quality of the system. Mr. White's perspective is interesting, but doesn't speak to the forensics. Mr. White might raise questions about the argument "Epstein couldn't have committed s…

The pathologist from the article, it is important to remember, contradicts the NY ME's report, and has been hired by Epstein's family, who have a wrongful death suit brewing. He's hardly an unbiased source, and unlike the NY ME, he's retired and (while he has a reputation to protect as a human being who cares about such things) he has no career to protect by not screwing up the details on this one.

>he has no career to protect by not screwing up the details on this one.

Sure he does: he has a career as an expert witness apparently.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#296

Post by magduf »

mc32 wrote: post #14
mikece wrote: post #2

I tend to be very skeptical of claims of conspiracy and conspiracy theories in general but I've yet to hear a reasonable theory to explain how Epstein could have killed himself in a cell and unit where suicide is made a practical impossibility. A friend in law enforcement related a story about someone on suicide watch who managed to kill himself by eating/shoving massive amount of toilet paper down his throat and the…

Yeah I’m also skeptical of improbable theories... but this one looks, I mean looks, too convenient. Cameras go offline, taken off suicide watch... even if it wasn’t someone physically doing him in, they can drive him to do it by psychological means. This was one of the highest profile cases in the last decade. That they didn’t have him watched 24x7 is incredible gross negligence or more. I mean you have low level cri…

>PS toilet paper: can’t they get prison safe bidets?

This is America: we absolutely refuse to use bidets, no matter how much sense they make.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#297

Post by magduf »

mistermann wrote: post #180
cc81 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if it just was a suicide? If he had dirt on people would he not arrange so it would be sent out in case of his death? Especially if there was a failed murder attempt just weeks before? And what stops the victims of naming names now? And what would have stopped Epstein of just not talking and just denying?

> If he had dirt on people would he not arrange so it would be sent out in case of his death? Considering the circumstances, if you received information from Epstein, what would you do with it? Even if you were brave enough to risk your life in the service of justice, what authority would you even send it to?

>what authority would you even send it to?

Well, you could send it to various foreign news outlets. I'm sure RT would love it.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#298

Post by lazyasciiart »

anigbrowl wrote: post #195
nkrisc wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would wager that those same conditions were true long before Epstein ever set foot in there as well.

So why would you put him there? Continual focus on the environment takes the attention of the exceptionally unusual identity of the prisoner.

Because that's where pre-trial prisoners are held. edit: or he could have gone to the Brooklyn facility, which has the same problems.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#299

Post by roenxi »

malvosenior wrote: post #291
neom wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a close relative who is a pedophile. I still give them my time. Don't underestimate human compassion, regardless of your value judgement on it.

Are you saying that Gates was being compassionate toward Epstein? Gates hid the depth of his affiliation with Epstein until this NYT article came out. He knew it was wrong. Much more likely is that Epstein had dirt on Gates and/or connections Gates wanted.

No, it isn't wrong; guilt by association is not a civilised concept.

And if someone commits a crime then the courts determine an appropriate punishment and that is the end of what gets called 'wrong'.

I'm on board if you don't want to talk to convicted paedophiles - seems reasonable to me - but being judgemental of someone else's relationships is not fair.

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