Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says • Hacker News Board

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#191

Post by moltensodium » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 7:03 PM UTC

avn2109 wrote: post #152

moltensodium wrote: post #107

Yeah, outside of Lee Harvey Oswald this guy was the most important prisoner in the history of the USA. The fact that he just "suicided" in prison and we're all supposed to move on and share links about suicide awareness is utter nonsense. If the corporate media doesn't get to the bottom of this then someone else will, it's just a matter of time. Everyone is so tired of being lied to by authority figures.

The future's already here, it's just not evenly distributed. Plenty of people probably already "got to the bottom of this." But you and I haven't dug deep enough to find it.

That's a big part of the problem right? We've stratified information access such that special elite groups get to decide what the lowly commoners are allowed to know. We know what's best for them.

In theory this would be fine if we had a rigorous and well tested process for managing dangerous information, but the whole classification system has just been subverted to just hide whatever embarrasses the rich and powerful. It's an illegitimate farce.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#192

Post by rndgermandude » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 7:06 PM UTC

hurrdurr2 wrote: post #43

It sure was convenient for a lot of high profile people that this guy is dead. The cameras happened to malfunction on that day... guy got taken off suicide watch. Also his cell mate was an ex-cop who looks like he could snap people in half without trying. I mean come on.

Exactly. I find it rather plausible that those in power with something to lose created the circumstances (like malfunctioning cameras) and incentives (like putting him with a real bad cell"mate", with the suggestion he'd share the rest of his life with such people) to drive him into and enable his suicide instead of just whacking him outright, at least at this stage.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#193

Post by anigbrowl » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 7:07 PM UTC

542458 wrote: post #77

loceng wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand your point, however I want to rhetorically ask: expensive relative to what? What's a life worth? What's it worth to keep someone alive where there's very high probability that they alone could be linchpin to bring down a network of bad actors?

> expensive relative to what? What's a life worth? I absolutely agree - it was stupid and shortsighted to take him off of suicide watch, and better suicide watch programs are needed in general. My point is more that nothing that much out of the ordinary for American jails happened here. Things happen in US jails every day that, to most people, would seem insane - incompetence and indifference to life are the norm. Se…

I've been in jail and while I fully agree about the poor quality thereof, the argument that 'jail is crap there's your answer' is woefully insufficient; in the worst case, it can be used to foreclose any inquiry in specific circumstances by a sort of reverse concern trolling.

It can be true both that the carceral system is hopelessly corrupt and should be abolished, and also that an individual death within the carceral system was avoidable and hyper-suspicious.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#194

Post by goodfight » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 7:09 PM UTC

goatinaboat wrote: post #139

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's in the "quite difficult, but not impossible" category. The question then is, who would want him dead that badly, and have the resources to carry it out? Given the circles he ran in and the dirt he might have had on people, a surprising number of people might have had both the means and the motive. Mind you, I'm not saying that it was murder. I'm just saying that the degree of difficulty isn't as big a barrier…

who would want him dead that badly, and have the resources to carry it out? Perhaps someone who flew on the Lolita Express 27 times? Or a close relative?

Clinton Body Count

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#195

Post by anigbrowl » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 7:09 PM UTC

nkrisc wrote: post #40

snagglegaggle wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The prison where Epstein died was understaffed, and the guards tasked with watching him had no training on suicide watches. This could have been intentional, fyi.

I would wager that those same conditions were true long before Epstein ever set foot in there as well.

So why would you put him there? Continual focus on the environment takes the attention of the exceptionally unusual identity of the prisoner.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#196

Post by KevinEldon » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 7:09 PM UTC

542458 wrote: post #19

mikece wrote: post #2

I tend to be very skeptical of claims of conspiracy and conspiracy theories in general but I've yet to hear a reasonable theory to explain how Epstein could have killed himself in a cell and unit where suicide is made a practical impossibility. A friend in law enforcement related a story about someone on suicide watch who managed to kill himself by eating/shoving massive amount of toilet paper down his throat and the…

> killed himself in a cell and unit where suicide is made a practical impossibility Ken White (famous-ish lawyer and notable internet personality) puts it this way: "But your assessment of plausibility is based on your assumptions about how the system works. Those assumptions are, mostly, wrong — naive Dick-Wolf-level law-enforcement-are-competent-good-guys stuff". Prisons, particularly american prisons, are full of…

The pathologist from the article claims "Epstein suffered multiple fractures in his neck that are more consistent with strangulation than suicide by hanging". This is a forensic claim first, but one that also raises questions about the quality of the system. Mr. White's perspective is interesting, but doesn't speak to the forensics.

Mr. White might raise questions about the argument "Epstein couldn't have committed suicide because of the system", but by highlighting the incompetence in the system he lends plausibility to the idea that someone could gain access to Epstein in order to murder him.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#197

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 7:10 PM UTC

cc81 wrote: post #166

moltensodium wrote: post #107

Yeah, outside of Lee Harvey Oswald this guy was the most important prisoner in the history of the USA. The fact that he just "suicided" in prison and we're all supposed to move on and share links about suicide awareness is utter nonsense. If the corporate media doesn't get to the bottom of this then someone else will, it's just a matter of time. Everyone is so tired of being lied to by authority figures.

What if it just was a suicide? If he had dirt on people would he not arrange so it would be sent out in case of his death? Especially if there was a failed murder attempt just weeks before? And what stops the victims of naming names now? And what would have stopped Epstein of just not talking and just denying?

[deleted]

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#198

Post by kevin_thibedeau » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 7:11 PM UTC

libraryatnight wrote: post #169

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People know they will never be rich. Almost everyone knows that. I don't think the average American knows that until they hit 40, hence the midlife crisis.

As a middle-class person, when I talk to other middle-class people, many make decisions/vote like they are going to be wealthy some day. Actively arguing against their own interests out of this weird fear that it would someday bite them when it's their wealth being taxed etc. one of the best protections the wealthy have in the US is the poor and middle class voting based on an imagined and unlikely future for themsel…

This is mostly a problem with GOP adherents. The people that actually control and are served by the party are too few to win elections on their own. They have constructed a rhetoric that is meant to appeal to rural working class voters for the sole purpose of winning elections. Hence the phony demonstrations of Christian faith and donning of the trucker cap. The genius is that their failure to execute on promised benefits for all is blamed on the other guys so there is a built in feedback cycle bringing more sheep to the flock every two years.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#199

Post by dfcagency » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 7:12 PM UTC

CharlesColeman wrote: post #134

simonebrunozzi wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually very rich people have a strong incentive to hire private firms specialized in minimizing the impact of bad stuff like this, and doing so in a very discreet way. I am 100% speculating, but I'd guess that's what Jeff Bezos did in relation to his extra-marital affair, and what Bill Gates and others have been doing in relation to Epstein.

> Usually very rich people have a strong incentive to hire private firms specialized in minimizing the impact of bad stuff like this, and doing so in a very discreet way. I'd be interested in learning about what techniques they use, since they seem like something that ought to be countered.

Read "trust me, I'm lying" by Ryan Holiday.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#200

Post by ethelward » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 7:14 PM UTC

cc81 wrote: post #166

moltensodium wrote: post #107

Yeah, outside of Lee Harvey Oswald this guy was the most important prisoner in the history of the USA. The fact that he just "suicided" in prison and we're all supposed to move on and share links about suicide awareness is utter nonsense. If the corporate media doesn't get to the bottom of this then someone else will, it's just a matter of time. Everyone is so tired of being lied to by authority figures.

What if it just was a suicide? If he had dirt on people would he not arrange so it would be sent out in case of his death? Especially if there was a failed murder attempt just weeks before? And what stops the victims of naming names now? And what would have stopped Epstein of just not talking and just denying?

Let's take it the other way around and assume it was a murder.

> would he not arrange so it would be sent out in case of his death?

Not being able to do that while in high-security confinment.

> And what stops the victims of naming names now?

Not wanting to die.

> what would have stopped Epstein of just not talking and just denying?

The only way to be sure he would not talk is to definitely prevent him from talking.

Now I'm not saying the murder hypothesis is the correct one, but it still holds water IMHO.