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The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

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Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#171

Post by buboard »

polynomial wrote: post #65
buboard wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> offers much more opportunities to create and collaborate than any other time in the past. We had skype, games, ICQ, MSN, blogs, blog aggregators, rss readers, galleries, audiogalaxy, guestbooks, forums, hotline communications, IRC, video chats, joomla, wikis etc etc in the year 2003. Not much has been added. Video is perhaps the only thing that we didnt have. A big deal but it s not everything. The main change was…

> Not much has been added. Apart from "smart" phones, which had tremendous repercussions for your otherwise remarkable list.

I did mention the mobile format. Which is responsible largely for the dumbed-dowb, featureless, memoryless internet I experience

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#172

Post by ahje »

Daniel_sk wrote: post #137
Animats wrote: post #135

Recently I switched from Google search to Bing search. Bing is years behind Google, and today, that's a feature. Microsoft just hasn't bothered to do the obnoxious things Google does now. Bing doesn't have much content of its own. The better search results seem to show up before the ads. It's not flashy, but it's OK.

I think they also supply results to DuckDuckGo.

DDG also has it's own crawler, but the bulk of the results are from Bing.

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#173

Post by maze-le »

buboard wrote: post #13
phkahler wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's more to do than that. We need decentralized replacement for social media And our own email servers for starters. This should all come in one box like a wifi access point or modem.

We have always had email servers. You can set up one today. What we need is to to convince more technical people to use the internet the way it was designed for. And to find ways for these people to make money, because the monopolized internet of today makes that unattainable.

Been there, done that... It is a waste of time and effort if you can't convince other people to join your services. I have operated a jabber server for quite some time (2008ish - 2012). Mostly for me and some friends to organize lan parties and such. I told other people about it but after a week of interest, no one seriously used it, since everyone was already using other services to communicate -- also using a XMPP client seemed to be to much to ask for the non-techies.

As time goes on our communications moved towards facebook and teamspeak. And after dropping out of the local gaming scene I stopped operating it altogether -- if I am the only one using a comms-infrastructure its kinda moot, even if it's a federated system. I had some contacts outside of the gaming-bubble but by the time no one seemed to have used it anymore.

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#174

Post by ahje »

jimktrains2 wrote: post #110
rhizome wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Group iMessage = CC list, cc list becomes messaging group. I suppose one way this could play out would be simply to add an email submission API for text messaging app(s), but it's an incomplete idea so far. :)

I'm still not sure what you mean. Are you simply talking about an email client that looks like a text messaging program?

I like that idea; An email client that looks and behaves like the regular messaging apps in iOS/Android.

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#175

Post by samfriedman »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #47
stuart78 wrote: post #38

I think of this issue in a much more mundane way all the time. When looking for product reviews, for example, the top results are, in my experience, unusable. A search for espresso machine reviews returns SEO driven results, and even the more genuine-looking results (sorry BusinessInsider, but I don't need your input) seem to exclusively list products which the site manager can get a referral link for. I don't mind t…

https://www.millionshort.com/ Can be a big help here - search without the top million (or 100k etc) results - the SEO driven and commercial giants. Results vary, but I find it really useful when the main results are all engagement ad driven crap. Some of the old-school web is still around, it's just down on page 20+ of Google and Bing.

!mill in DDG :)

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#176

Post by buboard »

maze-le wrote: post #173
buboard wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have always had email servers. You can set up one today. What we need is to to convince more technical people to use the internet the way it was designed for. And to find ways for these people to make money, because the monopolized internet of today makes that unattainable.

Been there, done that... It is a waste of time and effort if you can't convince other people to join your services. I have operated a jabber server for quite some time (2008ish - 2012). Mostly for me and some friends to organize lan parties and such. I told other people about it but after a week of interest, no one seriously used it, since everyone was already using other services to communicate -- also using a XMPP…

it really is an issue of network-lock-in though. facebook is already bloated, discord will become as well. they try hard not to rot but they will

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#177

Post by cowpig »

stuart78 wrote: post #38

I think of this issue in a much more mundane way all the time. When looking for product reviews, for example, the top results are, in my experience, unusable. A search for espresso machine reviews returns SEO driven results, and even the more genuine-looking results (sorry BusinessInsider, but I don't need your input) seem to exclusively list products which the site manager can get a referral link for. I don't mind t…

ConsumerSearch is the best thing I've found for this purpose specifically

https://www.consumersearch.com/

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#178

Post by silveroriole »

pmlnr wrote: post #163
silveroriole wrote: post #131

I like to fantasise about invite-only internet ‘shards’ off the main internet. Each shard would have a maximum capacity, and that capacity would be small enough that someone could create an index of every page in the shard. You could only be a member of one shard at a time. Shards wouldn’t be topic-based, they’re just deliberately small communities. Like the “mosaic of subculture” and “community of 7000” in A Pattern…

There's already a system for it: https://www.scuttlebutt.nz/

Interesting, I hadn’t heard of that - sounds quite similar to Mastodon? I wish they weren’t social networks based around identities, friends and sequences of posts, though. I would much prefer sites and pages to be the primary thing. I don’t like the kind of content that social media encourages, even decentralised social media.

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#179

Post by doesitmakesound »

nathell wrote: post #169
eitland wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Getting out there and developing the sites/apps you want to see will bring change. Be proactive. Be the change you want to see. I now have my own stupid blog again[0] trying to add some good old fun and weirdness to the web along with some hopefully useful or thought-provoking posts in between. I wish we could have a thread (possibly even a monthly thread here, like who is hiring) where people could mention their b…

I've recently recreated my personal site and blogs[0] using a custom-tailored static site generator[1]. It felt good, like in the era of the Internet of creation. [0]: http://danieljanus.pl [1]: https://github.com/nathell/nhp

I created a new personal blog site too! The Bloomer's Guide to the Multiverse:

Lifebased.org

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#180

Post by soulofmischief »

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #93

Normal people finally got on the internet and the average person can’t create shit. All they can do is bitch and moan, be horrible to others, and be surveilled and controlled. And that’s what we got. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September

A slightly different take on Eternal September:

In the old days, when you joined a community it could be very insular. That's okay, there were communities for everything and everyone. So you had to read the rules, learn the lingo, and shut up and lurk for a while so you didn't invoke the wrath of the mods. Or you were gone.

Anti-social, attention-seeking, spammy, obnoxious or controlling behavior was simply not tolerated. What right did you have to come into another's home and begin making demands as to how they live their lives?

All of that has changed. The above behaviors are the new norm, thanks to the simultaneous nature of the walled gardens of social media and the fact that the walls are low enough that everyone can see into your garden.

Suddenly you have nosy neighbors saying, "Hey, I'll be honest, that crabgrass in your lawn is making it harder to appreciate the beauty of my own lawn. Maybe you should clean it up, everyone else is doing it, so you must be anti-social if you don't.

The entire meaning of the word "anti-social" has completely changed. I would consider most modern online communities to be extremely anti-social.

The only answer is a return to form, going back to individual communities where we can more freely express our opinions, just making sure to network our communities in such a way that compassion and sincerity flourish, and we don't just return to the echo chambers of the 90's (they did exist!).

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