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Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

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Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#921
post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why are people against your comment. What happened to "vote with your wallet?" it used to be the way Americans punished companies. What gives power to these companies to be evil is that we as a society keep giving them money. Just stop giving them money and they will change.

It's not as easy due to network effects. Part of these are social network effects (all my friends use it, plus the apps they use need you to use the same apps, meaning you have to use the same OS or one of the big ones, etc). Part of them are actual network effects (you've already used the same g-suite or whatever apple provides, and moving to something else - if it exists at all - is either very difficult or impossi…

> It's not as easy due to network effects.

So true, which is why we need antitrust enforcement. If you run a platform or a service, you have to provide access to that platform or service to your competitors under the exact same terms as your customers. Anything less is the definition of anti-competitive.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#922

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese people doing business with Chinese companies aren't affected by these sorts of things either. By restricting the discussion in that way, you're evading what you must know is the main point of what I'm saying: people doing business have been much more heavily affected, so far in this trade war, by arbitrary actions of the US President than of the Chinese government. This applies equally to American businesspeo…

> people doing business have been much more heavily affected, so far in this trade war, by arbitrary actions of the US President than of the Chinese government. I don't really know how that's related at all to my original post, but sure the trade war has massively affected the worldwide economy, and business leaders are well aware (watch the stock market jump and dive every time big T reaches for his phone) My origin…

Your original comment set up a dichotomy between China and the US: businesses have to be wary of arbitrary Chinese government actions, but can count on predictable, fair treatment in the US.

That dichotomy is not borne out by the facts. So far in this trade war, capricious actions by the US government have done far more damage to businesses than such actions by the Chinese government. China has yet to pull anything of the magnitude of the Huawei ban. That's not to say they definitely won't in the future, but so far, they've held back, so as not to scare off foreign businesses.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#923
post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because the locked-down nature of the iPhone is always made out to be an all-or-nothing policy. I legitimately don't understand why. There are real benefits to having a curated, sandboxed, and audited selection of safe, quality software. Most users should never need to leave such an environment What is necessary is an escape hatch—one that doesn't involve continual software reinstalls, or outright buying new har…

I spoke with a former Apple dev on this topic once. He says that you can opt out of code signing and the App Store on Mac because that's a professional OS, but for iOS the security rationale for not allowing that is that it's geared for less tech-savvy users. Paraphrasing: "If there is a way to opt out, malicious apps and sites will con users into doing it to get malware on the phone." I can't totally disagree. To ha…

That dev is completely and utterly wrong.

>He says that you can opt out of code signing and the App Store on Mac because that's a professional OS

And this is why he's wrong: it's NOT a "professional OS". My sister has a Macbook Air, running MacOS. She's not a professional (computer user). Mac computers aren't just for "professionals" (esp. software devs), they're sold to anyone who wants something with a bigger screen than a mobile phone or tablet, and wants a keyboard to type on and wants to be able to have a normal filesystem to work with. In short, anyone who still wants to be able to use a normal PC.

She uses her Mac for typing documents (she likes to write), watching movies, etc. She is absolutely NOT what I consider a "tech-savvy user". So why does she "need" to be able to opt out of code signing and the App Store?

So, no, he's completely wrong. If Apple only sold their computers to software devs, he'd have a good argument, but they don't, so he doesn't.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#924

And in one fell swoop, Apple has made it effectively impossible to install this app on your phone. There's no realistic workaround. † Apple should never have been capable of making such a drastic decision for all of their customers. It's one thing to make determinations about what products are allowed in your store, but quite another to unilaterally ban software from what is many people's primary computer. We live in…

iPhones, iPads and the whole mobile device segment is useless if a company can decide the content. It will never be your device. Microsoft tried the same crap with their store, which was fortunately rejected to a large degree. The future of software shouldn't look so backwards. I can understand users being drawn in by accessibility, which is hard to realize for more open systems. But I don't really understand develop…

>iPhones, iPads and the whole mobile device segment is useless if a company can decide the content. It will never be your device.

I don't like it either, but don't fool yourself: lots of people don't care. They don't care if it's "their device" or not. They're perfectly happy to pay $1200 for a high-end device they don't have full control of, because it signals wealth, and does what they want it to do.

Just look at how many people lease cars instead of buying them. It's not that different; they don't own those cars, they're really just renting them. They're not allowed to modify them, and can get in trouble if they don't follow the maintenance schedule or drive them too much. But for those people, they're fine with that.

>Microsoft tried the same crap with their store, which was fortunately rejected to a large degree.

This is probably for at least two reasons. 1) There was already a huge ecosystem of Windows software out there, long before MS tried to ape Apple. Those companies were already successful in selling their apps directly to customers, without having to give MS a 30% cut. Why would they want to adopt MS's new strategy? 2) MS being MS, they most likely bungled it in some way. This happens every time they try to ape Apple or someone else; the first few iterations are absolutely terrible and a big joke. Sometimes they persist and it finally works out for them, other times they finally give up (e.g., PlaysForSure, Zune).

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#925

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's funny: "Apple will always be a second-class citizen to Android" You don't hear about 14 million iPhones being infected by malware[0], do you? Or malware stealing users' bank credentials[1]? Heck, there are people whose brand new phone comes pre-loaded with malware[2]. Oh, this one was just posted five hours ago -- applications on the Google Play store load with trojans and spyware[3]. I can keep going, but the…

This argument reminds me of the gun control argument. People in favour of "more guns" are fully aware that more guns means a more dangerous society. But they consider the freedom to choose whether to own guns more important than living in a statistically safer society. Whereas, people in favour of "gun control" consider the safety of society overall to be much more important than the freedom to own devices designed t…

This isn't a great analogy.

The problem with guns is that it's mostly binary. Either you live in a society with guns, or without. You don't really have a choice once you're in that society: if you live in the US and don't like guns, that's too bad, because other people can have them, and they can shoot at you with them; you being anti-gun isn't going to help you much if some wacko decides to come to your school and shoot everyone. Or, if you live in Singapore and like guns, that's too bad, because you're not allowed to own one there at all, and if someone somehow manages to smuggle one in and shoot at you, you won't be able to shoot back.

>Android gives you more freedom to choose different devices, but at the cost of most devices not getting security and OS updates.

The key here is you have choice, and your choice completely changes your experience.

So if you get some crappy Android device from a mfgr that doesn't bother with security and OS updates, you could be infected with malware. Whereas if you get a good Android device from a mfgr that does regular updates, you're much less likely to be infected.

>Likewise, Android gives you the freedom to side-load all kinds of things onto your devices, and of course the Android ecosystem is chock-full of malware.

Again, your choice changes your experience. No one is forcing you to side-load apps. If you want to stick with the curated Google Play store (like 99% of users), you can do that. And even there, if you're careful about which apps you load, and stick only to well-known and reputable ones, then again you'll probably avoid any malware problems. No one is forcing you to install some random Chinese-made app that's obviously malware, even though those do exist on the Play store unfortunately. Unlike with guns, the fact that other people with other phones may be installing malware on their devices doesn't affect you: you're not going to get malware because some differnt mfgr doesn't do updates, or because some apps that you never install are malware and are available on the Play store.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#926
post #776

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument reminds me of the gun control argument. People in favour of "more guns" are fully aware that more guns means a more dangerous society. But they consider the freedom to choose whether to own guns more important than living in a statistically safer society. Whereas, people in favour of "gun control" consider the safety of society overall to be much more important than the freedom to own devices designed t…

This also mirrors Chinese vs. American values perfectly. The Chinese believe in the Apple model of safety, greater good, social harmony, and the ends justifying the means over individual liberties. The concentration camps, great firewall, IP theft, everything we see as dysfunctional about China stems from this belief system. Americans don't believe in the "greater good" or "the ends justify the means" and it results…

As the other responder says, this is a terrible generalization. Japan also has a society where the greater good and social harmony are highly valued, and they don't have things like concentration camps, a great firewall, IP theft, etc.

However, in the US, we do have concentration camps. We call them "migrant detention centers", and people are forced to drink water from the toilet there, and small children are forcibly separate from their mothers. It seems to me that the US is more similar to China than you think.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#927

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has been (I suspect purposefully!) dragging their feet on progressive web app support. There list of limitations is long, but most critically for this app (I would imagine), they can't send notifications and they can't work offline.

You don’t need progressive web apps to display markers on a map. And anyway, a PWA should be actually progressive. If it requires all the features it’s the opposite of progressive.

You’re referring to Progressive Enhancement, where you make sure it works on old devices but only new devices get the enhancements.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#928
post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The business model is outdated, Safari purposefully being a laggard with no alternatives on iOS will eventually bite Apple in the butt, it is just a question of when. Both the Music industry and Apple seek to maintain their control and thus their cash cows, but whether that will continue to work out for Apple remains to be seen...

> The business model is outdated And what is it's replacement? It seems in app purchases are what keeps up a large part of mobile apps. iTunes changed the music business, but I have not noticed a similar change for mobile apps, web or not.

Why does there need to be a replacement? Apple already sells the hardware and their software (iOS and the preinstalled apps) and makes money off of that.

If I make my app available via my website as a PWA, and all the hosting costs are my own, and don't use any of the app store's services, why does Apple deserve a share of the in app (in PWA?) purchases?

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#929
post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

North Americans? The people in the 23 countries that make up the North American continent. Why not western nations in general?

> 23 countries Canada, USA, Mexico, what are the other 20?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_d...

Technically I think north-western Iceland should be included too since it's on the western side of the mid-Atlantic ridge.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#930
post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has been (I suspect purposefully!) dragging their feet on progressive web app support. There list of limitations is long, but most critically for this app (I would imagine), they can't send notifications and they can't work offline.

There are a number of interesting use cases for PWAs, but part of Apple's fear is (potentially) many of their clients will migrate to PWA only, reducing App Store revenue severely. Apple also loses all code auditing and screening, meaning they can't ban GPL licensed PWAs like they ban alternative Linphone builds (as they are GPLv2), Signal Private Messenger builds (GPLv3) and only the official developer can build and…

Apple hasn't banned GPL apps. It would be more accurate to say GPL bans Apple.
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