Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#511

Post by mehhh » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 3:39 PM UTC

Aperocky wrote: post #491

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has been (I suspect purposefully!) dragging their feet on progressive web app support. There list of limitations is long, but most critically for this app (I would imagine), they can't send notifications and they can't work offline.

It's pitiful there hasn't been a widely adopted open source notification framework like linux is to OS. Apple and Google both implement their own and it gave them overwhelming power over the app developers. Ironically, this framework may start in China as while majority of the people use Android they have no access to G-suite, apps develop their own notifications and eats up tonnes of RAM, this will neatly solve that…

Apple is the one holding up Web Push on iOS at this point, Chrome, Firefox, Edge and a number of other browsers support it: https://caniuse.com/#search=push

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#512

Post by sho » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 3:39 PM UTC

IanSanders wrote: post #464

sho wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, just the majority, as I understand it, and as I believe their actions demonstrate. Of course I can't know the inner secrets of a billion minds, but it's my genuine belief that what I wrote is at least mostly in the right direction.

Is majority always right? Does the majority have complete information on the matter?

Look man - I am not a philosopher. Ask yourself.

I'm just some guy who has, or think I have, a little more access to "chinese thought" than I commonly see around here. I thought it would be useful or at least interesting to bring up a perspective I don't see commonly shared, not endorsing it, just tabling it for consideration. Answering questions such as yours is above my pay grade.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#513

Post by travisp » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 3:39 PM UTC

chance_state wrote: post #226

travisp wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has not handed over the iCloud keys and has testified in the US under penalty of perjury that they have not done this and not made an exception for China. Repeating this is dangerous because it’ll cause people to take different (probably less safe and private) actions based on incorrect information.

Yes, they have. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208351 Can you link to a source showing that Apple didn't turn over control of iCloud in China to the CCP?

That link does not show that they've given control over encryption to the CCP. Apple is on record stating that they have not done this.

"Encryption for us is the same in every country in the world...We worked with a Chinese company to provide iCloud, but the keys [...] are ours...I wouldn't get caught up in 'where's the location of it,' I mean we have servers located in many different countries in the world. They're not easier to get data from being in one country versus the next...The key question is how does the encryption process work, and who owns the keys — if anyone. In most cases for us, you and the receiver [of a message] own the keys." - Tim Cook

(https://www.businessinsider.com/tim-cook-apple-encrypts-data...)

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#514

Post by Wowfunhappy » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 3:39 PM UTC

leoc wrote: post #457

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #297

And in one fell swoop, Apple has made it effectively impossible to install this app on your phone. There's no realistic workaround. † Apple should never have been capable of making such a drastic decision for all of their customers. It's one thing to make determinations about what products are allowed in your store, but quite another to unilaterally ban software from what is many people's primary computer. We live in…

There is a supposedly 'unpatchable' new jailbreak for most currently-in-use iPhones, it seems: https://www.cnet.com/news/theres-a-new-jailbreak-for-million... .

I Jailbreak my own iPhone, and I'm personally delighted about checkm8. But for most people, this is yet another "unrealistic workaround".

Imagine you're a Hong Kong protester. You're spending a significant portion of your time in the streets, and the rest at work, or school, or whatever other life tasks you're responsible for. Do you really want to spend an hour reading up on how to Jailbreak your phone? And then, because this is a "tethered" Jailbreak, what happens if your phone reboots and you're not near a computer?

There is a balance to be struck here. Sideloading can't be too easy, lest people get tricked into doing it. But it shouldn't require more than five minutes, and it should be a one-time process. (Or at least nearly-one-time: making it annual might be reasonable.)

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#515

Post by trophycase » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 3:39 PM UTC

sho wrote: post #315

Here we go again... Let me explain how Chinese people think about HK, since none of them ever seem to explain it on a site like this. Imagine you are a middle class American. Maybe you are but if not, just imagine, tech city on the east or west coast. You're pretty invested in being an American, skin in the game, manifest destiny etc. Very good. They call this tianxia by the way, basically Chinese manifest destiny. L…

Right so first it's Hong Kong. Then Taiwan, just like Tibet before it, then whatever the next thing the Chinese government convinces the people that it owns. And next thing you know China is even bigger and more dangerous

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#516

Post by wbl » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 3:40 PM UTC

sho wrote: post #315

Here we go again... Let me explain how Chinese people think about HK, since none of them ever seem to explain it on a site like this. Imagine you are a middle class American. Maybe you are but if not, just imagine, tech city on the east or west coast. You're pretty invested in being an American, skin in the game, manifest destiny etc. Very good. They call this tianxia by the way, basically Chinese manifest destiny. L…

The United States has asked Puerto Rico if they want to be in or out and if they had massively wanted out would have politely negotiated an exit. We gave up the Philippeans a bit later then planned, but there was a war on.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#517

Post by missosoup » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 3:42 PM UTC

thewholeview wrote: post #410

UIZealot wrote: post #270

It helps to know a little bit about what's been going on in Hong Kong, before you all decide to line up and take your daily dump on China. It all started a few months ago when someone committed a crime in Taiwan and fled to Hong Kong. To prevent HK from becoming a safe haven for criminals, the Chief Executive of HK proposed a new law to facilitate extradition of these crime suspects from HK to various jurisdictions i…

Thanks for trying to educate the mass in a factual manner, and I'd like to apologize for others for voting you down. Unfortunately many of HN are fueled currently by a righteous sense of nationalism and words outside the context of the media cannot be easily consumed at the moment. It's absolutely similar in Chinese forums though as we are through an era that has the easiest path towards a propaganda for a collective…

I have a good-faith question for you.

Your account is 6 days old. Your account's activity is 100% directed towards China-related threads and your comments take on a CCP angle.

I'd like to know what brought you to HN and what you hope to accomplish here. Where do you live? Where did you study? What are your political leanings? I would love to open a line of dialogue.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#518

Post by mehhh » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 3:43 PM UTC

frenchyatwork wrote: post #496

mehhh wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a number of interesting use cases for PWAs, but part of Apple's fear is (potentially) many of their clients will migrate to PWA only, reducing App Store revenue severely. Apple also loses all code auditing and screening, meaning they can't ban GPL licensed PWAs like they ban alternative Linphone builds (as they are GPLv2), Signal Private Messenger builds (GPLv3) and only the official developer can build and…

> many of their clients will migrate to PWA only, reducing App Store revenue severely This was also the music industy's fear of digital data about 20-30 years ago.

The business model is outdated, Safari purposefully being a laggard with no alternatives on iOS will eventually bite Apple in the butt, it is just a question of when.

Both the Music industry and Apple seek to maintain their control and thus their cash cows, but whether that will continue to work out for Apple remains to be seen...

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#519

Post by towelrod » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 3:46 PM UTC

xibalba wrote: post #344

This is a vexing problem. It seems that many here would want Apply to defy China. This will result in Apple's expulsion from China/HK. Those users will then move to other phone mfgs/services providers, with higher probability that it will be Chinese, thereby granting the PRC even more power over HK'ers. Contrarily is the "seat at the table" approach. Apple could comply with China, while continually introducing featur…

Most companies have been trying the "seat at the table" approach for the last ~10 years and this is where it got us.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#520

Post by 66543throwaway » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 3:46 PM UTC

UIZealot wrote: post #141

It helps to know a little bit about what's been going on in Hong Kong, before you all decide to line up and take your daily dump on China. It all started a few months ago when someone committed a crime in Taiwan and fled to Hong Kong. To prevent HK from becoming a safe haven for criminals, the Chief Executive of HK proposed a new law to facilitate extradition of these crime suspects from HK to various jurisdictions i…

It’s a sad state when you are being downvoted for stating the facts.

Ironically, I have Taiwanese friends in Hong Kong that have gotten hurt by the rioters because they were speaking Mandarin (there’s a bigoted response where the rioters target anyone they suspect of being Mainland Chinese).