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Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

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Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#911

Post by CharlesColeman »

aianus wrote: post #776
braythwayt wrote: post #760

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument reminds me of the gun control argument. People in favour of "more guns" are fully aware that more guns means a more dangerous society. But they consider the freedom to choose whether to own guns more important than living in a statistically safer society. Whereas, people in favour of "gun control" consider the safety of society overall to be much more important than the freedom to own devices designed t…

This also mirrors Chinese vs. American values perfectly. The Chinese believe in the Apple model of safety, greater good, social harmony, and the ends justifying the means over individual liberties. The concentration camps, great firewall, IP theft, everything we see as dysfunctional about China stems from this belief system. Americans don't believe in the "greater good" or "the ends justify the means" and it results…

> This also mirrors Chinese vs. American values perfectly.

> The Chinese believe in the Apple model of safety, greater good, social harmony, and the ends justifying the means over individual liberties. The concentration camps, great firewall, IP theft, everything we see as dysfunctional about China stems from this belief system.

By "Chinese" do you mean the Chinese people, Chinese culture, of the Communist Party of China?

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#912

Post by luxuryballs »

stephc_int13 wrote: post #261

Blizzard and now Apple. I think this is very serious and it should be a wake-up call. As simple citizens we don't have much choices but vote with our wallets and use social networks to attack the most valuable asset of those companies, their reputation.

The only thing that gives me pause is thinking would the Chinese be better off without access to any Apple or Blizzard products at all? Because I think that is ultimately the threat of not following the mandates.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#913

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

helen___keller wrote: post #909
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #821

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they may very well ban you from doing business with a foreign company, for completely arbitrary and opaque reasons. You may be suddenly told that you have to break off relations with your largest customer, or a product you own may suddenly lose important functionality. Millions of Europeans are now affected by the American Huawei ban, which risks degrading the phones that they bought. This is far more serious tha…

In your earlier post you said > nobody seems to care too much I explained this is because Americans doing business with American companies are not affected by the things you describe. you're the only one ascribing values like "is more serious than Huaweis CEO being imprisoned", I never said that and I didn't see anybody else in this thread even mention Huawei

Chinese people doing business with Chinese companies aren't affected by these sorts of things either. By restricting the discussion in that way, you're evading what you must know is the main point of what I'm saying: people doing business have been much more heavily affected, so far in this trade war, by arbitrary actions of the US President than of the Chinese government. This applies equally to American businesspeople. The ban on doing business with Huawei, for example, has wiped out billions of dollars in revenue from the balance sheets of American companies.

So while these threads on China regularly draw huge numbers of comments all but calling for war with China, the much more serious, arbitrary actions by the sitting US President are met mostly with approval in these forums.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#914

Post by helen___keller »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #913
helen___keller wrote: post #909

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your earlier post you said > nobody seems to care too much I explained this is because Americans doing business with American companies are not affected by the things you describe. you're the only one ascribing values like "is more serious than Huaweis CEO being imprisoned", I never said that and I didn't see anybody else in this thread even mention Huawei

Chinese people doing business with Chinese companies aren't affected by these sorts of things either. By restricting the discussion in that way, you're evading what you must know is the main point of what I'm saying: people doing business have been much more heavily affected, so far in this trade war, by arbitrary actions of the US President than of the Chinese government. This applies equally to American businesspeo…

> people doing business have been much more heavily affected, so far in this trade war, by arbitrary actions of the US President than of the Chinese government.

I don't really know how that's related at all to my original post, but sure the trade war has massively affected the worldwide economy, and business leaders are well aware (watch the stock market jump and dive every time big T reaches for his phone)

My original post is just adding that business leaders need to also be aware that China is more than willing to put companies between a rock and a hard place - stick with your morals and risk your China business, or give up your values and risk a PR disaster (see Blizzard). Business leaders need to price in this risk, much as they already price in the risk of tariffs, sanctions, etc. If US customers start to care about HK or Taiwan or Tibet or Xinjiang, that's an immediate and new risk to companies that feel pressured to censor themselves

To put it another way - when gay marriage became popular in the states, companies began to proudly advertise rainbow branded products. What happens if support for HK protests reaches that level of popularity? Companies with mainland presence get dabbed on

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#915

Post by learc83 »

spinach wrote: post #396
learc83 wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A better example is Puerto Rico. If they had a referendum that showed a clear desire for independence, the US would almost certainly let them leave.

Even better example would be Hawaii state, previously the Hawaiian Kingdom. I doubt America would let Hawaii go.

If it was still a semi autonomous region, and a high enough percentage of the entire population wanted independence, yeah we probably would.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#916

Post by munmaek »

glitchc wrote: post #906
CrystalLangUser wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That has nothing to do with manifest destiny or even the average American. People are almost completely unaware of how many bases we have abroad, etc. You are trying to paint a portrait of Americans in general that is flagrantly false.

I didn’t think I was bashing or portraying a negative statement, rather shedding light on an objective truth. I can understand that Americans don’t know much at all about those bases. But they do know how much their military is costing (in broad terms) and are happy to continue supporting that. Much evidence points to the sentiment that the US behaves like a modern-day Rome and has attempted (or is attempting) to ach…

> But they do know how much their military is costing (in broad terms) and are happy to continue supporting that.

Many people explicitly hate this and want to see money diverted from that to stuff like education, etc.

Americans aren't one singular unit that agree on issues, especially things like foreign policy.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#918

Post by colejohnson66 »

saagarjha wrote: post #800
mehhh wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a number of interesting use cases for PWAs, but part of Apple's fear is (potentially) many of their clients will migrate to PWA only, reducing App Store revenue severely. Apple also loses all code auditing and screening, meaning they can't ban GPL licensed PWAs like they ban alternative Linphone builds (as they are GPLv2), Signal Private Messenger builds (GPLv3) and only the official developer can build and…

I’ve been looking at the App Store Guidelines recently and I don’t see much in them that seems to block GPL specifically. Maybe it’s OK now?

It’s not so much that it’s banned; it’s that because the GPLv3 allows users to modify their software and Apple doesn’t without their developer licenses, you can’t give the user all the freedoms the license provides.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#919

Post by colejohnson66 »

hhtoyou wrote: post #566
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #297

And in one fell swoop, Apple has made it effectively impossible to install this app on your phone. There's no realistic workaround. † Apple should never have been capable of making such a drastic decision for all of their customers. It's one thing to make determinations about what products are allowed in your store, but quite another to unilaterally ban software from what is many people's primary computer. We live in…

apple always has failed in creating a mapping app. also it is hinders with other developers beautiful works !

Apple has failed? Have you seen their maps app recently? The amount of detail they put into areas is much more than Google.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#920

Post by colejohnson66 »

computerex wrote: post #830
amatecha wrote: post #715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's funny: "Apple will always be a second-class citizen to Android" You don't hear about 14 million iPhones being infected by malware[0], do you? Or malware stealing users' bank credentials[1]? Heck, there are people whose brand new phone comes pre-loaded with malware[2]. Oh, this one was just posted five hours ago -- applications on the Google Play store load with trojans and spyware[3]. I can keep going, but the…

What an incredibly weak argument. Android absolutely destroys iOS in market share, it's not even a comparison. That's why it's targeted by malware writers. That doesn't mean it's any less secure than iOS. You have to try very hard to infect your phone. I'd pick being able to run whatever I want over Apples choice of apps any day.

Popularity is also including the fact that more than just phones run Android
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