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Germany's Vanishing Monasteries

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Re: Germany's Vanishing Monasteries

#151

Post by justaguyhere »

ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #119
rpmisms wrote: post #95

For all those in this thread talking about monasteries without having ever been in one, please try the experience. If there's an Orthodox monastery near you, try seeing if you can stay for a few days. They generally aren't rich by any stretch of the imagination, but even staying for a few days and following the lifestyle will give you insight into why the monastic life is a valuable and valid choice in our increasing…

3 day silent retreats completely changed my life. As someone who spent a decade in depression and near the edge of suicide, there are two things I ask people to try before killing themselves. 1) A silent retreat 2) An Ayahuasca ceremony Those two things helped more than years of therapy and anti-depressants. A pretty intense exercise regimen also helped me out a lot, but its hard to get someone to pick that over deat…

I can understand silent retreat, could you please elaborate on Ayahuasca? I want to do it, but I am also worried a bit about the experience. Also, I am not a physically strong person, not sure if that should be a factor to consider.

Re: Germany's Vanishing Monasteries

#152

Post by mantoto »

gtycomb wrote: post #122
mantoto wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By being social you mean? I also know my neighbors and I'm friendly with them.

more than that, I'd say. The young auto-rikshaw man on my way to the bus station from those gates was telling me about his kidney disease and how those sisters helped raise the substantial money for a transplant ...

That's called community and we as a society should try to create that without religion.

Also such stories exists

Re: Germany's Vanishing Monasteries

#153

Post by _fq4v »

idoubtit wrote: post #136
tathougies wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monasteries have always opened their rooms to guests. Its part of the rule of Benedict to offer hospitality, including food.

You seem to have missed an important word in the grand poster's story: monasteries are opening up their rooms to paying guests. Sanctus Benedictus never set any rule about renting rooms and selling breakfasts. By the way, monasteries existed long before the Benedict order, and other orders existed in parallel. Some monasteries did not welcome visitors, especially women and couples.

> especially women and couples.

You're making this seem misogynistic, but indeed, typically female monasteries were not (and are still not) open to men.

You're not wrong I was incomplete in my previous statement. Monasteries would often try to render assistance to the exceptionally needy, but have historically operated as regular inns only for those who could stay within the convent walls. This was basically restricted by sex. Even today, if you're going to do a retreat at a monastery, couples typically would have to stay away from the cloister (many monasteries - but not all - offering retreats typically have a separate house for these individuals, a short distance from the main cloister). Only single men would be permitted into a male monastery (behind the cloister for the night) and single women to a female one.

Re the paying stuff. As far as I'm aware (and I've researched a few monasteries in my area and know several monks), the payment is a suggested donation, not a requirement. Of course, that's my own anecdata. I would be interested in knowing if there is a monastery charging for the actual stay, because typically they're not supposed to.

Re: Germany's Vanishing Monasteries

#154

Post by ghostbrainalpha »

justaguyhere wrote: post #151
ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3 day silent retreats completely changed my life. As someone who spent a decade in depression and near the edge of suicide, there are two things I ask people to try before killing themselves. 1) A silent retreat 2) An Ayahuasca ceremony Those two things helped more than years of therapy and anti-depressants. A pretty intense exercise regimen also helped me out a lot, but its hard to get someone to pick that over deat…

I can understand silent retreat, could you please elaborate on Ayahuasca? I want to do it, but I am also worried a bit about the experience. Also, I am not a physically strong person, not sure if that should be a factor to consider.

Physically strength is not required at all. But you do vomit usually, so if you have some sort of intense fear of that it could be an issue.

I don't believe there is anything mystical benefit to Ayahuasca, although the psychedelic element can definitely fuel your creativity if you want it to.

But certain drugs appear to have long-lasting effects on mental states, even if they aren't administered daily. Ketamine is another drug that shows promise in this area. There needs to be real studies around this, but in my experience the 2 day session is highly effective for at least a year afterward.

Re: Germany's Vanishing Monasteries

#155

Post by mcv »

hnal943 wrote: post #145
mcv wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do churches have so much money? Young churches are frequently short on money (which they need primarily to rent a building and to hire a preacher). Older churches have lots of buildings, but are rarely swimming in cash these days.

Churches in America are funded by the people that attend them. I think churches in Europe actually receive tax money, which changes the equation pretty significantly.

Churches in Europe are funded by the people that attend them. At least Dutch churches are, but I think this is true in most European countries. A long time ago, they were indeed funded by tax, at least some churches in some countries, but that's changed with a better understanding of the separation of church and state.

Re: Germany's Vanishing Monasteries

#156

Post by gmoot »

ykevinator wrote: post #46
baud147258 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing the point of why monasteries exist. The goal of a monastery is to provide a place where those who want to retreat from the world to spend their life praying; it's not for everyone. From my view point as a Catholic, the decline of monasteries is more linked to the decline of religion/religious practice than a matter of adaptation to the modern time: there's just less people who could be interest…

Plus there is growing consensus that God cannot exist.

"cannot" is such a high bar. This must be incorrect.

But religion is indeed in decline in the West. Whether or not this is an argument against God's existence is more questionable.

Re: Germany's Vanishing Monasteries

#157

Post by incompatible »

cat199 wrote: post #140
incompatible wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could try science / engineering monasteries as described by Neal Stephenson in Anathem?

this is what the 'univerity' is or was intended to be, at its base. there is a reason universities have 'faculties' (e.g. 'faculties' of the 'body of knowledge') and that key persons are called 'deans'

They would be somewhat different to a modern university. In the monastery, you don't get paid, you just get free accommodation and food (and presumably electricity, computer and Internet access, in the tech version). The monastery would perhaps also attempt to be self-sufficient as far as possible, by making its own food and electricity, perhaps taking in materials for recycling.

Re: Germany's Vanishing Monasteries

#158

Post by magduf »

high_5 wrote: post #143
magduf wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong. The original meaning of a word is irrelevant. The definition of a word in the English language is whatever people currently use it for.

That's how people start talking past each other just to prove their own worldview. And that's not communication.

That's literally how the English language works. It's defined by popular usage. So one person using a word "wrongly" is indeed "wrong", but if most people use a word "wrongly", then it becomes correct.

Re: Germany's Vanishing Monasteries

#160

Post by mantoto »

cat199 wrote: post #141
mantoto wrote: post #117

Good news. Those things are a really bad thing. People isolated by gender. By rules defined 1-2000 years ago and while they are taking it serious, priests don't. Yes don't forget the horrible stories of nuns sexually raped by priests! Srsly Why do you think it is a good thing to isolate yourself from modern society and think you can help while not even getting modern society anymore?!

> not even getting modern society anymore "19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, jo…

"The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak"

And no I'm not even sure if you mean it what you wrote.

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