Germany's Vanishing Monasteries • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany's Vanishing Monasteries

#111

Post by dr_dshiv » Tue, Sep 24, 2019, 3:49 PM UTC

lukebuehler wrote: post #108

dr_dshiv wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, definitely not claiming this is the only way to interpret christianity. But, the design constraints are: how to interpret christianity in a manner that is commensurable with modern science and ancient traditions? Hence... Note that there is no need to find the original interpretation (impossible), only an early, valid, and widespread interpretation. And whatever it is, it should provide spiritual meaning AND n…

I agree with your assessment that people are missing out when they don't consider the Neoplatonic influence on Christianity, especially when stating it this way is the only way of getting people to look at it from a different perspective. "Eastern Christian philosophy," or simply "Eastern Theology" really came into its own, and while it is absolutely valid to study Church writers in contrast and relationship to Neopl…

Yes! I came into all this from Pythagoreanism, which had such an impact on Plato. It was a scientific religion, essentially, with no fixed doctrine. And it played a huge role in Neoplatonism, early Christianity and the renaissance. Pythagoras, the same guy we all learn about in middle school!

Re: Germany's Vanishing Monasteries

#112

Post by homonculus1 » Tue, Sep 24, 2019, 3:53 PM UTC

wolfgke wrote: post #48

Krasnol wrote: post #2

30 years might be enough to become a popular retreat from technology. They just need proper online marketing.

> 30 years might be enough to become a popular retreat from technology. They just need proper online marketing. Was the contradiction between these two sentences an actually intended stylistic device ("retreat from technology" vs. "proper online marketing")?

The stylistic device in question is known commonly as a "joke".

Re: Germany's Vanishing Monasteries

#113

Post by maxerickson » Tue, Sep 24, 2019, 4:07 PM UTC

baud147258 wrote: post #45

dschuetz wrote: post #15

Is there any possible modern approach to a traditional catholic monastery? I think, they are dying out, because of their rigid traditions which rarely make sense in our modern world anymore. The idea of a monastery is to dedicate yourself completely to introspection and philosophy, and serving the monastery with its inhabitants, no matter what religion or philosophy. Why are they having so much trouble to keep up wit…

I think you're missing the point of why monasteries exist. The goal of a monastery is to provide a place where those who want to retreat from the world to spend their life praying; it's not for everyone. From my view point as a Catholic, the decline of monasteries is more linked to the decline of religion/religious practice than a matter of adaptation to the modern time: there's just less people who could be interest…

Aren't there approximately the most Catholics now vs any other time in history?

Re: Germany's Vanishing Monasteries

#114

Post by danans » Tue, Sep 24, 2019, 4:24 PM UTC

skissane wrote: post #51

avar wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe has entire countries where pretty much 100% of the population were extremist Catholic zealots with huge families by modern standards just a couple of hundred years ago. Today those countries have some of the lowest birth rates in Europe, e.g. Spain and Italy[1] pretty much trail the pack. The data suggests that your hypothesis is false. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_European_U...

I'm not sure the idea that "100% of the population were extremist Catholic zealots" is really true. Rodney Stark [1] argues that people overestimate the religiosity in past decades and centuries. The genuinely devout have never been the majority. The difference is, that even if the average person back then wasn't hugely interested in religion, there was strong social pressure to give the appearance of caring about it…

> Most people back then, whatever their religion was, had big families due to primitive contraceptive technology, high infant mortality, economic value of child labour, less years spent in education, lack of educational and career opportunities for women, etc.

It's interesting that religion has remained relevant for many whose lives today match what you describe. This isn't to blame religion for those problems, but it doubtless plays a role as both cause and effect, especially when the state is unable or unwilling to provide an adequate level of life security for the populace.

Re: Germany's Vanishing Monasteries

#115

Post by gtycomb » Tue, Sep 24, 2019, 4:25 PM UTC

Recently I was in India and certain circumstances connected me with a facility for the elderly run by an order of Catholic Nuns. I visited them quite a few times and while inside those closed gates there was this sense of reverence, peace, and shall I say holiness in many ways truly tangible. And when they bid me goodbye at the main gates, even as we stood there chatting a little while, the town or village people walking by outside the gates would smile and one of the sisters would call out to ask something about them. These sisters were involved with this outside world, and knew them and their needs so intimately! Yes, there is so much to understand about these areas of life us software engineering types seldom think about, it seems.

Re: Germany's Vanishing Monasteries

#116

Post by mantoto » Tue, Sep 24, 2019, 4:28 PM UTC

gtycomb wrote: post #115

Recently I was in India and certain circumstances connected me with a facility for the elderly run by an order of Catholic Nuns. I visited them quite a few times and while inside those closed gates there was this sense of reverence, peace, and shall I say holiness in many ways truly tangible. And when they bid me goodbye at the main gates, even as we stood there chatting a little while, the town or village people wal…

By being social you mean?

I also know my neighbors and I'm friendly with them.

Re: Germany's Vanishing Monasteries

#117

Post by mantoto » Tue, Sep 24, 2019, 4:31 PM UTC

Good news. Those things are a really bad thing. People isolated by gender. By rules defined 1-2000 years ago and while they are taking it serious, priests don't.

Yes don't forget the horrible stories of nuns sexually raped by priests! Srsly

Why do you think it is a good thing to isolate yourself from modern society and think you can help while not even getting modern society anymore?!

Re: Germany's Vanishing Monasteries

#118

Post by humble_engineer » Tue, Sep 24, 2019, 4:33 PM UTC

mantoto wrote: post #117

Good news. Those things are a really bad thing. People isolated by gender. By rules defined 1-2000 years ago and while they are taking it serious, priests don't. Yes don't forget the horrible stories of nuns sexually raped by priests! Srsly Why do you think it is a good thing to isolate yourself from modern society and think you can help while not even getting modern society anymore?!

You are a bigot

Re: Germany's Vanishing Monasteries

#119

Post by ghostbrainalpha » Tue, Sep 24, 2019, 4:38 PM UTC

rpmisms wrote: post #95

For all those in this thread talking about monasteries without having ever been in one, please try the experience. If there's an Orthodox monastery near you, try seeing if you can stay for a few days. They generally aren't rich by any stretch of the imagination, but even staying for a few days and following the lifestyle will give you insight into why the monastic life is a valuable and valid choice in our increasing…

3 day silent retreats completely changed my life.

As someone who spent a decade in depression and near the edge of suicide, there are two things I ask people to try before killing themselves.

1) A silent retreat 2) An Ayahuasca ceremony

Those two things helped more than years of therapy and anti-depressants.

A pretty intense exercise regimen also helped me out a lot, but its hard to get someone to pick that over death when they are close to the edge so I don't include it.

Re: Germany's Vanishing Monasteries

#120

Post by telesilla » Tue, Sep 24, 2019, 4:41 PM UTC

rpmisms wrote: post #95

For all those in this thread talking about monasteries without having ever been in one, please try the experience. If there's an Orthodox monastery near you, try seeing if you can stay for a few days. They generally aren't rich by any stretch of the imagination, but even staying for a few days and following the lifestyle will give you insight into why the monastic life is a valuable and valid choice in our increasing…

Actually it seems to be a growing industry: monasteries are opening up their rooms to paying guests.

We stayed in one in Italy recently, south of Napoli. It was like a very, very quiet hotel with a peaceful garden and a resident cat. I'd have happily stayed longer. I was also in one last year in Belgium, it was part of a larger church establishment but the location was so central it was like staying in a nice hotel. Again - quiet. Both were without luxuries of a 4 star hotel but very well appointed and with excellent breakfasts, and locations.