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Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies

nytimes.com

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Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies

#71

Post by chrischen »

Porthos9K wrote: post #60
jenvalentino wrote: post #15

Hi. I'm the reporter on this story. Thanks for discussing it! I thought it might be helpful for me to make a couple points. First, national security letters have been around, AND controversial, for years now. A number of tech companies have fought the gag orders. The news here is really that we are seeing for the first time which other specific companies get a lot of these — especially banks, credit agencies and so f…

This is an excellent and deeply disturbing article, but all I can do in response right now is suspect that if J. Edgar Hoover were still alive to see what shenanigans the modern FBI gets up to when nobody is looking, he would wholeheartedly approve. It's obvious that the agency has learned all the wrong lessons from the exposure of COINTELPRO. The FBI is still The House J. Edgar Built, and Congress ought to tear it d…

You can't assume that Hoover would have been against increasing the power available to himself and his agency.

Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies

#72

Post by a3camero »

kabdib wrote: post #62
cgriswald wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Constitution is only a piece of paper. Lots of people tell you this, usually when they're arguing against gun ownership; but they completely miss the point of what that means. In their minds that means, "So we should just do whatever we want." Everything "enshrined in The Constitution" is no such thing. It's enshrined in our culture, and individual hearts and minds. That's why it's so incredibly stupid and naive…

"Democracy is government for the people, by the people, on the principle that the people should get the kind of government that they deserve, good and hard." [wish i could attribute this, but i don't remember where i first heard it]

It's by H.L. Mencken (1915): https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/H._L._Mencken. https://books.google.ca/books?id=hXVHAAAAYAAJ&q=%22Democracy...

Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies

#73

Post by jdc »

drewmol wrote: post #69
jenvalentino wrote: post #15

Hi. I'm the reporter on this story. Thanks for discussing it! I thought it might be helpful for me to make a couple points. First, national security letters have been around, AND controversial, for years now. A number of tech companies have fought the gag orders. The news here is really that we are seeing for the first time which other specific companies get a lot of these — especially banks, credit agencies and so f…

Fwiw, it was the PATRIOT Act, passed shortly after the events of 9/11/2001, that allows for these administrative subpoenas and gag orders and removed any effective judicial oversight. Many of those provisions in the act were set to expire and those expirations were extended by both president Bush and Obama. IIRC the AG or their subordinates have to notify the judiciary of these subpoenas but can issue a gag order alo…

A little more background on administrative subpoenas:

We Don't Need No Stinking Warrant: The Disturbing, Unchecked Rise of the Administrative Subpoena (https://www.wired.com/2012/08/administrative-subpoenas)

Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies

#74

Post by [deleted] »

kabdib wrote: post #62
cgriswald wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Constitution is only a piece of paper. Lots of people tell you this, usually when they're arguing against gun ownership; but they completely miss the point of what that means. In their minds that means, "So we should just do whatever we want." Everything "enshrined in The Constitution" is no such thing. It's enshrined in our culture, and individual hearts and minds. That's why it's so incredibly stupid and naive…

"Democracy is government for the people, by the people, on the principle that the people should get the kind of government that they deserve, good and hard." [wish i could attribute this, but i don't remember where i first heard it]

[deleted]

Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies

#75

Post by kabdib »

a3camero wrote: post #72
kabdib wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Democracy is government for the people, by the people, on the principle that the people should get the kind of government that they deserve, good and hard." [wish i could attribute this, but i don't remember where i first heard it]

It's by H.L. Mencken (1915): https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/H._L._Mencken . https://books.google.ca/books?id=hXVHAAAAYAAJ&q=%22Democracy...

Thanks! I had a feeling it was Mencken, it certainly sounds like him.

Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies

#76

Post by Porthos9K »

bilbo0s wrote: post #67
Porthos9K wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an excellent and deeply disturbing article, but all I can do in response right now is suspect that if J. Edgar Hoover were still alive to see what shenanigans the modern FBI gets up to when nobody is looking, he would wholeheartedly approve. It's obvious that the agency has learned all the wrong lessons from the exposure of COINTELPRO. The FBI is still The House J. Edgar Built, and Congress ought to tear it d…

> Congress ought to tear it down. ABSCAM. There is a Lavrentiy Beria everywhere. (There's probably thousands of Lavrentiy Beria's in the US alone, truth be told.) With the threat of ABSCAM-like ops looming out there, I wouldn't count on politicians saving us. Just ask black and hispanic males how well appealing to politicians for help from malicious prosecution has worked out for them historically.

I get what you're saying, but do you really see HN management turning a blind eye to people calling for direct action against Federal agencies when a bunch of Ycombinator startups probably do business with the Feds? Besides, Big Brother is probably reading HN as well.

Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies

#77

Post by Porthos9K »

chrischen wrote: post #71
Porthos9K wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an excellent and deeply disturbing article, but all I can do in response right now is suspect that if J. Edgar Hoover were still alive to see what shenanigans the modern FBI gets up to when nobody is looking, he would wholeheartedly approve. It's obvious that the agency has learned all the wrong lessons from the exposure of COINTELPRO. The FBI is still The House J. Edgar Built, and Congress ought to tear it d…

You can't assume that Hoover would have been against increasing the power available to himself and his agency.

He didn't seem to mind when he was actually running the FBI. So, assuming life-after-death isn't just a fantasy, why expect that he's changed his mind? People usually don't unless forced to do so.

Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies

#78

Post by calotow »

kazagistar wrote: post #38
RonaldSchleifer wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for your reporting on this, even if it just seems to chronicle the ever accelerating deconstruction of the Constitution. Even if American Constitutionalists were able to walk back these types of clear abuses on the social compact that keeps peace by two steps, it will only be without realizing that five steps were taken towards the progress of disassembling the Constitution. An old, irrelevant, outdated doc…

I'm not sure how the constitution is remotely relevant here. It's clearly not protecting us from this in it's current state. If we want protections against secret government gag orders, we have to vote for people who will oppose them, which is a really small number of people indeed, or else vote to change the constitution to actually start protecting these rights. And if this turns out to be impossible, what is at fa…

Is it possible that your vote does nothing or is that not possible because it would be too big of a trick?

Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies

#79

Post by nullc »

The use of administrative subponeas with effectively limitless gags is very concerning, but I also feel that the attention is somewhat misplaced.

The US government receives far more private data about people from companies selling it or simply giving it away, than they get via administrative subpoena. The practice of paying for requested data also makes companies complicit in these orders, when they are issued-- they're a revenue center.

Without stronger laws barring the collection of data and providing stiff civil or even criminal penalties for disclosure (including to the government) the bulk of the situation will not be much improved.

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