We can't keep pretending this is still a Democracy when we have a completely unaccountable NSA/CIA/FBI that seems to repeatedly hide their mistakes and the dubious legality of their sources & methods behind the classification and national security walls.
It was very eye opening to me when I had a conversation with a family member who is retired CIA/NSA/Rand. Not a low level person. I was asking them about when President Clinton asked about the UFO's, and why the president was not told the answers he was seeking. Their reply: the presidency is not the highest security clearance and the president does not have a right to know everything. I wonder if that's what the fou…
Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies
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Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies
#32What is unreasonable is that companies can't reveal they've been gagged, or what type of data they were compelled to reveal, even after the fact. Companies should be allowed to say "we have disclosed access logs, location history, searches, encrypted backups for 1-50 accounts in response to lawful request from law enforcement." And they should be able to disclose the letter after an investigation has closed (whether it resulted in legal action against the individual or not).
Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies
#33We can't keep pretending this is still a Democracy when we have a completely unaccountable NSA/CIA/FBI that seems to repeatedly hide their mistakes and the dubious legality of their sources & methods behind the classification and national security walls.
It was very eye opening to me when I had a conversation with a family member who is retired CIA/NSA/Rand. Not a low level person. I was asking them about when President Clinton asked about the UFO's, and why the president was not told the answers he was seeking. Their reply: the presidency is not the highest security clearance and the president does not have a right to know everything. I wonder if that's what the fou…
It's important to make the distinction that while the President doesn't know all of the things that the Intelligence Community is doing at any one time, there isn't anything that he can't know. It's no different in any other part of the cabinet - the Cabinet members and senior executive service all ultimately decide what hits the desk of the President, so in that sense there is an entire staff "controlling what the president knows." Same as any large organization.
The DNI, DIRNSA, DCI, JS/J2 and all service 2's all work for the President, and they collectively are the ones who "know all the things" - so you can bet if he needs to know something, one of those people will give it to him.
Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies
#34We can't keep pretending this is still a Democracy when we have a completely unaccountable NSA/CIA/FBI that seems to repeatedly hide their mistakes and the dubious legality of their sources & methods behind the classification and national security walls.
It's still a democracy, just a very sick one. The United States is like a 243-year-old engine with a desperate need of an oil change. That oil is us... ...ok. Horrible metaphor but you get it. Not calling you out just saying just don't let cynicism take hold. Remember, we pushed Bush out and he was a war criminal.
Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies
#35Hi. I'm the reporter on this story. Thanks for discussing it! I thought it might be helpful for me to make a couple points. First, national security letters have been around, AND controversial, for years now. A number of tech companies have fought the gag orders. The news here is really that we are seeing for the first time which other specific companies get a lot of these — especially banks, credit agencies and so f…
An old, irrelevant, outdated document the Constitution is, they tell you as part of the psychological manipulation game they play to get people to foolishly abdicate their most fundamental rights through the con job of government's benevolence. But in the end, well beyond the point of way-too-late, people will unfortunately have to come to terms with the reality that freedom, liberty, self-governance, and that the government is no one's friend are not old, irrelevant, and outdated principles; they are universal principles that span time.
Just like many things in humanity have been discovered and crated, then forgotten and taken for granted and driven to being lost and collapsed, and then rediscovered or reinvented; so too, does it seem humanity is on course to bury this experiment with self-governance that was kicked off in 1775, for maybe another 1,000 years, if not permanently. Is there even an opportunity or chance for freedom to rise again when it is suppressed so thoroughly by way of technology and soulless robots and AI? I think not. I hope I am for once wrong. ... War or galvanizing event to rationalize ever more eradication of liberty, incoming, all to the cheers of adoring fans.
In memoriam the people who's voices have been squelched by the tech tyrants. They will not be the last victims of this evil that is descending on us with ominous persistence.
Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would say the western intelligence community actively created rumors of the Russia scare 2.0. This should have severe consequences on every level of relevant institutions.
Thanks for pointing this out.. I (like most other US citizens) have zero idea of what things are actually like in Russia. The news reminds us daily that Russia is a frozen hellscape filled with miserable savages, Russians are the 'bad guys' of choice in a disproportionate amount of high visibility movies and Netflix shows (Stranger Things season 3 comes to mind), our school system teaches kids next to nothing about t…
Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies
#37A gag order can be reasonable: "give us what you have on user John Smith birthday 1/1/1950 but don't tell him anything" makes sense if you're, say, investigating a criminal ring John is part of. What is unreasonable is that companies can't reveal they've been gagged, or what type of data they were compelled to reveal, even after the fact. Companies should be allowed to say "we have disclosed access logs, location his…
Gag orders should be allowed, but only if signed off on by a judge, and only for a reasonable amount of time to complete an investigation. If the government gets your information, and decides not to bring charges, you should have the right to know about that at some point.
Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies
#38Hi. I'm the reporter on this story. Thanks for discussing it! I thought it might be helpful for me to make a couple points. First, national security letters have been around, AND controversial, for years now. A number of tech companies have fought the gag orders. The news here is really that we are seeing for the first time which other specific companies get a lot of these — especially banks, credit agencies and so f…
Thank you for your reporting on this, even if it just seems to chronicle the ever accelerating deconstruction of the Constitution. Even if American Constitutionalists were able to walk back these types of clear abuses on the social compact that keeps peace by two steps, it will only be without realizing that five steps were taken towards the progress of disassembling the Constitution. An old, irrelevant, outdated doc…
The governmental system we have is not a perversion of the constitution, but a reflection of its inadequacies.
Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would say the western intelligence community actively created rumors of the Russia scare 2.0. This should have severe consequences on every level of relevant institutions.
Thanks for pointing this out.. I (like most other US citizens) have zero idea of what things are actually like in Russia. The news reminds us daily that Russia is a frozen hellscape filled with miserable savages, Russians are the 'bad guys' of choice in a disproportionate amount of high visibility movies and Netflix shows (Stranger Things season 3 comes to mind), our school system teaches kids next to nothing about t…
Because the Chinese are off limits now (because the studios want to make money there and throwing evil Chinese billionaires into your rotation for super-villain of the month is a great way to not do that) so that basically leaves Russian billionaires and middle eastern oil moguls as your two picks for low effort evil foreign characters.
Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
It was very eye opening to me when I had a conversation with a family member who is retired CIA/NSA/Rand. Not a low level person. I was asking them about when President Clinton asked about the UFO's, and why the president was not told the answers he was seeking. Their reply: the presidency is not the highest security clearance and the president does not have a right to know everything. I wonder if that's what the fou…
Your family members were lying to you if they said that the president doesn't get to see whatever classified material they want. The president doesn't even have a security clearance like everyone else requires, they get to see whatever they want and can declassify anything they want.
Technically, the president can classify or de-classify anything they'd like to at any time. He is the sole and only person in charge of the branch of government responsible for this.
Practically, over many years presidents have delegated this authority all over the place, and in such byzantine ways that most of the folks in compartmentalized projects wouldn't know that he had the authority -- and even if they did, they could just point to various laws and signing letters that make it less than clear how a president would go about declassifying anything.
So yeah, in theory POTUS could take an afternoon off, walk down the street into a government building and declassify whatever he wants. That's why we fight so much over who gets the job: the illusion that these powers are present. In reality, however, if he could get the SS to allow him to take a walk (unlikely), he'd be stopped at the door of wherever he went (both by his own and that department's security services), and then the red tape nightmare would begin. By the time it was all over he'd be better off staying home and watching daytime TV.
For what it's worth, and I hate using movies as historical examples, in the movie Nixon there was a great scene where Nixon went in the middle of the night to talk to protesting students. He wanted the war to end too, didn't they know that?
It was contentious, but then one kid got it and said it aloud, something like "You don't have the power to stop it either, do you?"
Nixon looked completely defeated at that moment. Seconds later he was dragged off by his security staff.
Without getting into the veracity of that exchange, the gist of it is something we see confirmed over and over again in the historical record: large groups of administrators simply cannot be governed and instructed by one person, no matter what the documents technically look like. It's system itself that does the work and enforces the norms, whether it's General Electric or the NIS