Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies
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Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies
#2We can't keep pretending this is still a Democracy when we have a completely unaccountable NSA/CIA/FBI that seems to repeatedly hide their mistakes and the dubious legality of their sources & methods behind the classification and national security walls.
Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies
#3We can't keep pretending this is still a Democracy when we have a completely unaccountable NSA/CIA/FBI that seems to repeatedly hide their mistakes and the dubious legality of their sources & methods behind the classification and national security walls.
Data seizures of this kind used to be based on probable cause. Now the probable cause is “living on this planet in this time”. Like, “you're a suspect, we just don't know of what yet”.
Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies
#4We can't keep pretending this is still a Democracy when we have a completely unaccountable NSA/CIA/FBI that seems to repeatedly hide their mistakes and the dubious legality of their sources & methods behind the classification and national security walls.
> We can't keep pretending this is still a Democracy when we have a completely unaccountable NSA/CIA/FBI that seems to repeatedly hide their mistakes and the dubious legality of their sources & methods behind the classification and national security walls.
And people still call Snowden a traitor for revealing this kind of practice in 2013.
Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies
#5We can't keep pretending this is still a Democracy when we have a completely unaccountable NSA/CIA/FBI that seems to repeatedly hide their mistakes and the dubious legality of their sources & methods behind the classification and national security walls.
Data seizures of this kind used to be based on probable cause. Now the probable cause is “living on this planet in this time”. Like, “you're a suspect, we just don't know of what yet”.
>Data seizures of this kind used to be based on probable cause.
I think they get away with this because they are just collecting the information in mass and are not targeting an individual.
There was a point where they were only scooping up information on foreign entities, and at some point that shifted and they started collecting all foreign and domestic information. I believe it was right around the time 9/11 happened.
This is what caused William Binney to leave the NSA
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Binney_(intelligence_o...
In order to parse that information and look up information about a particular subject or individual, I believe they still require a subpoena, but who is to say someone with access doesn't use this giant trove of information nefariously.
It also opens up the possibility of someone getting blackmail/dirt on a competitor and bribing a NSA employee to get the information.
Also what is to prevent someone from retroactively going back through the information on what used to be allowed but now has changed to being illegal because of an administration change/laws being passed.
The alphabet agencies definitively need more oversight, however I feel anyone tasked with that job ends up becoming entrenched in the corruption and have a hard time holding them accountable.
Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies
#6Earlier quoted context omitted.
Data seizures of this kind used to be based on probable cause. Now the probable cause is “living on this planet in this time”. Like, “you're a suspect, we just don't know of what yet”.
>Data seizures of this kind used to be based on probable cause. I think they get away with this because they are just collecting the information in mass and are not targeting an individual. There was a point where they were only scooping up information on foreign entities, and at some point that shifted and they started collecting all foreign and domestic information. I believe it was right around the time 9/11 happe…
I think this is the act you are referring to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act :)
Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies
#7Subpoenas have been used frequently for decades to request "records kept in the ordinary course of business". The only thing different in this case seems to be that there is a perpetual gag order. But if the local prosecutor subpoenas your phone records because you are being investigated for bribing an athletic coach at a university, I don't think the phone company will tell you about it.
Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies
#8We can't keep pretending this is still a Democracy when we have a completely unaccountable NSA/CIA/FBI that seems to repeatedly hide their mistakes and the dubious legality of their sources & methods behind the classification and national security walls.
The USA is a federal republic, not a democracy.
Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies
#9NSLs are not subpoenas. They are "administrative subpoenas," the difference being that they are not issued by a court and have no review or oversight by any judge or court officer. They are about as much a subpoena, as the FISA "court" is a court of law.
Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies
#10We can't keep pretending this is still a Democracy when we have a completely unaccountable NSA/CIA/FBI that seems to repeatedly hide their mistakes and the dubious legality of their sources & methods behind the classification and national security walls.
It's still a democracy, just a very sick one.
The United States is like a 243-year-old engine with a desperate need of an oil change.
That oil is us...
...ok. Horrible metaphor but you get it.
Not calling you out just saying just don't let cynicism take hold.
Remember, we pushed Bush out and he was a war criminal.