Sex censorship killed the internet we love • Hacker News Board

Re: Sex censorship killed the internet we love

#431

Post by lenticular » Sat, Feb 02, 2019, 5:19 PM UTC

microcolonel wrote: post #424

lenticular wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Closed attitudes about sex lead to more teen pregnancy, less opportunities for women, etc. I don't see where it is beneficial. The arguments for sexual prudishness always seem to revolve around "cheapening it" with a heavy subtext of expecting women to maintain sexual purity especially. Most of Western Europe is quite progressive about sex, but yet I can't see how that has been a problem for them. While you may have…

> less opportunities for women What is the mechanism of that? I don't understand how it's necessary to expose broader society (rather than just people interested in it) to unavoidable sexual imagery in order to... have women in the workplace?

Sexual control is universally directed primarily towards women. No matter where you are in the world, male heterosexuality is far less restricted (often thought of as "conquest") whereas female sexuality is heavily restricted ("slut"). This gives a backdrop of delegitimizing women's choices over men's. I'm gay, and repressive sexual attitudes did tremendous damage to me in my youth, as I grew up in a conservative area. I don't understand how you can say with a straight face that sexual repression is not associated with homophobia or discrimination against women. I lived it, and so did every other gay or trans person I know.

Also, who gets to decide what is appropriate? A few years ago, people commonly argued that gay people on TV isn't appropriate for children, using some variant of your argument. That's considered a reprehensible viewpoint now. The same is currently true of depicting trans people on TV, or accepting the reality that they exist. In 10 years, that will be considered reprehensible.

I now live in an area with a more positive view of sexuality, and this carries over to acceptance of homosexuality, gender nonconforming behavior, etc. Sexual repression, empirically, is always linked to devaluing of women and other disadvantaged groups.

edit: Openness about sexuality does not translate into acceptance of nonconsensual or harassing sexual behavior, which is what we should all be concerned about. Quite the opposite. Openness encourages victims to come forward, as has become very apparent in the last few years.

Re: Sex censorship killed the internet we love

#432

Post by malvosenior » Sat, Feb 02, 2019, 5:20 PM UTC

door5 wrote: post #425

50656E6973 wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tribal hatred for "out groups" is a human problem

Racism is a political problem. It doesn't arise out of some universal flawed human psyche, it arises because certain political structures exist that stratify and marginalize groups of people. In the United States, for example, "whiteness" was an invention that changed over time to include different groups depending on political circumstances. Calling it merely a "human" problem ignores the strong relationship between…

Incorrect. Racism is an innate human problem. Every group will have a self preference without massive work to train themselves otherwise.

There are a lot of minority groups that look down on other minority groups. It's part of human nature.

Re: Sex censorship killed the internet we love

#433

Post by eli_gottlieb » Sat, Feb 02, 2019, 5:25 PM UTC

perilunar wrote: post #120

sgt101 wrote: post #55

The real "original sin" of the free internet is the curation of the experience of using neutral information systems to drive engagement and skew users decisions away from their own interest towards the commercial interest of the web sites. Routine deception and manipulation mean that there are no clear lines or defensible moats of freedom. There is no rule of law or communal standard of fairness on the internet. This…

> my perception is that the vast majority of sex workers are not doing it because of free choice, but rather because of exploitation and pressure. Your perception would be wrong. The vast majority of sex workers are doing it for the money, same as any job. > The illegality of prostitution Prostitution is not illegal in many parts of the world, and even decriminalised is some parts. > I hear of no stories where people…

>Your perception would be wrong. The vast majority of sex workers are doing it for the money, same as any job.

So, precisely exploitation and pressure, same as any other job.

Re: Sex censorship killed the internet we love

#434

Post by nate_meurer » Sat, Feb 02, 2019, 5:32 PM UTC

13of40 wrote: post #327

door5 wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Also several well-educated and seemingly intelligent Americans who hold strong racist opinions. But that's another subject. Bring up Muslims or Roma people to a European and you'll find this isn't a uniquely American problem.

Whoah there. Just because the parent is painting all Americans with one brush doesn't mean we have to reciprocate.

This comment is truly bizarre. How did you read the parent, and only get that it's "painting all Americans with one brush". It was made perfectly clear by words such as "several" and "lots of".

It really could not have been made more clear. It explicitly referred to individuals that marcus has personally met. As an American myself, I find these anecdotal claims totally believable and unsurprising.

Seriously, how did your mind manage to filter this so severely?

Re: Sex censorship killed the internet we love

#435

Post by lou1306 » Sat, Feb 02, 2019, 5:47 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #417

lou1306 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Italy is (was?) quite religious too, what with Vatican City and a very long Christian-Democratic dominance in national politics, but it is also the birthplace of commedia sexy [1], and erotic comics artists such as Milo Manara and Guido Crepax were quite famous back in their day (they still are). The US seem especially prudish when it comes the depiction of sex in arts and entertainment. [1]: https://it.wikipedia.org…

Italy is not religious at all. Everyone is "catholic" but nobody actually goes to church or leads christian lives other than meaningless rote rituals. Try to get Italians to start going to church regularly, reading the Bible regularly, etc. and you'll be met with indifference or hostility.

I agree this may be true today, but the example I have cited come from the 60s and the 70s. For contex, divorce became allowed in 1970 (a 1974 referendum unsuccessfully tried to repeal that law); abortion was a crime until 1978 (again, a 1981 referendum failed to repeal the law). Same-sex unions have only been introduced in 2016. So, even though religious sentiment may be weak, the Italian cultural and political landscape is hugely influenced by the views of the Church.

As an aside, reading the Bible has never been a strong part of Catholic religiousness anyway, due to the fact that biblical exegesis has been historically (ie. until Vatican II) reserved to the clergy. There are indeed other forms of devotion, like the rosary or the liturgy of the Hours, which are more or less frowned upon by more "secular" people.

Re: Sex censorship killed the internet we love

#436

Post by door5 » Sat, Feb 02, 2019, 5:47 PM UTC

malvosenior wrote: post #432

door5 wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Racism is a political problem. It doesn't arise out of some universal flawed human psyche, it arises because certain political structures exist that stratify and marginalize groups of people. In the United States, for example, "whiteness" was an invention that changed over time to include different groups depending on political circumstances. Calling it merely a "human" problem ignores the strong relationship between…

Incorrect. Racism is an innate human problem. Every group will have a self preference without massive work to train themselves otherwise. There are a lot of minority groups that look down on other minority groups. It's part of human nature.

You're completely ignoring the power relationships involved here. Racism isn't just being selfish or rude towards people of another race, it's an entire political system that props up a certain group of people over another, and it pervades every aspect of our lives. Very very few white people believe, for example, "white people should have more wealth than other groups and that is good", yet they implicitly support a political and economic system that creates that outcome. They deny that whiteness is even a factor in their success or their politics, or they even incorrectly believe that white people are the ones that are worse off.

Re: Sex censorship killed the internet we love

#437

Post by ben_w » Sat, Feb 02, 2019, 5:54 PM UTC

losvedir wrote: post #403

ben_w wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to a Catholic secondary school. Some people definitely were saying that.

I did, too, and never heard it. Maybe you're confusing the idea that you shouldn't have sex not for procreation (ie the stance against birth control) with the idea that sex is only for procreation? IOW the Catholic teaching is that procreation is a necessary but not sufficient reason for sex.

Plausible. It was about 20 years ago now.

Re: Sex censorship killed the internet we love

#438

Post by tripzilch » Sat, Feb 02, 2019, 5:54 PM UTC

darkpuma wrote: post #405

apo wrote: post #368

What happened was we failed to consider the consequences of centralization: - Google with its search - Tumblr (or Medium) with its blogging platform - Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram with their connection to friends, family, and news - Starbucks with its roaming internet access - Youtube with its ubiquitous video distribution - PayPal with its payment network - Apple with its walled garden App Store It's no accident…

It's not just American sensibilities that are in play. When you allow people to upload pornographic material you have to deal with the risk that they'll upload illegal material (shit that's illegal in Europe too, it should be pointed out. And we could dive into a tangent to discuss the topic of ISP-level content blocking in America and the UK if you wish..) If you're unable to effectively filter that stuff out the ne…

> It's not just American sensibilities that are in play. When you allow people to upload pornographic material you have to deal with the risk that they'll upload illegal material (shit that's illegal in Europe too (...))

Umm, disagree. If you allow people to upload beautiful, tasty delicious regular porn, they're not going to automatically upload ugly scary bad disgusting child porn, too. It's not like porn is a "gateway drug" (another American term, btw) to child porn.

Similarly, if you allow violent action movies with strong language like Die Hard, you're not automatically going to get snuff clips of beheadings like ISIS.

The point that you're trying to make is about moderation of uploaded material in general.

It's still American sensibilities if you're somehow going to treat "not nude" and "showing a female nipple" differently.

Re: Sex censorship killed the internet we love

#439

Post by Eli_P » Sat, Feb 02, 2019, 5:57 PM UTC

We are not to tell nature what she’s gotta be.
For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.

Richard Feynman

So, humanity's greatest minds are chugging their assess on unsolved game theory problem: how to chop down the overpopulation tax and cram all pieces into everybody's asses, so after adding up again the tax sum is zero, and everybody's happy and nobody suffers/dies.

Bad news, can't be done. Good news, can be solved in higher dimensions; add human stupidity, weaknesses, incompetence; thus sexual and cultural differences can be spared... Stop. This still looks like kind of eugenics. No, no, no, I'm outta here. I'll leave it to the best game theorists from Google.

/me returned to 18 tabs with porn on Twitter

Re: Sex censorship killed the internet we love

#440

Post by marcus_holmes » Sat, Feb 02, 2019, 6:08 PM UTC

malvosenior wrote: post #432

door5 wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Racism is a political problem. It doesn't arise out of some universal flawed human psyche, it arises because certain political structures exist that stratify and marginalize groups of people. In the United States, for example, "whiteness" was an invention that changed over time to include different groups depending on political circumstances. Calling it merely a "human" problem ignores the strong relationship between…

Incorrect. Racism is an innate human problem. Every group will have a self preference without massive work to train themselves otherwise. There are a lot of minority groups that look down on other minority groups. It's part of human nature.

Absolute bullshit. Kids play with other kids whatever their skin colour. Then they get taught to treat people differently.

Racism is not nearly the problem in the UK (or Europe) that it is in the US.