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AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

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Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#241

Post by stallmanite »

simion314 wrote: post #98
ams6110 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't pass the smell test. If you have a receipt from the court showing that the fine was settled, how can they be saying they never got the money? As an aside this is a good reminder to keep forever any receipts for settlements with courts, the IRS, or other regulators.

>If you have a receipt from the court showing that the fine was settled, how can they be saying they never got the money? I assume the payment did not triggered the right things to mark the fine as payed, or someone made a mistake a number somewhere and something failed. You should always keep your receipt for a while or forever (keep energy/phone bills for a few months)

This is why I laugh at the “convenience” of a paperless world. Still might not help but at least a paper receipt is something.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#242

Post by qw »

arghwhat wrote: post #236
askvictor wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is assuming wealth/income is cause by hard work; while that's true for some people, many are rich because their parents are rich (would be curious to see stats around this)

I cannot say much about the stats, but I only really know of rich-by-work rather than rich-by-luck. But I do not think we should design a system to cater for outliers with immense wealth. We should cater for the general population, and I believe that for non-Dubai prince wealth, it is likely that it likely came through work.

You need to add social factors too. If you are born into poverty, it is not simply enough to work a bit harder than the average. The weight of all the factors against you will probably increase the workload by a magnitude compared to someone born into an average family.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#243

Post by arghwhat »

SquishyPanda23 wrote: post #232
arghwhat wrote: post #191

Yes, but even hidden, it's probably still going to appear quite significant, and I do believe that at some point, the fine size becomes nonsensical. But then again, I do not think that who you are or what you have should change the magnitude of the crime you commit. I don't think it is sensible that I should get greater fines because I chose to bust my ass and suffer from stress to gain more for my family, whereas I…

> punishing productivity and rewarding laziness. I'm unaware of any scientific evidence that wealth is the result of hard work and that poverty is the result of laziness. Can you cite empirical evidence for this claim?

Many seem to interpret what I said as "poverty equals laziness". This was never in any way what I said.

However, almost regardless of your situation, harder works gives greater results. You'll get significantly more if you work 14 hours a day instead of 8. Whether you're working a shit job and just trying to push up your work hours, you're trying to build your own company, or even if you're managing your multi-billion dollar portfolio, the more hours you put in the more you get.

Should that be punished? I get that a Dubai prince racing at 300km/h through a school zone in his Bugatti Chiron is one case, but what about the guy/girl that took on much more work than average? Should their punishment be directly propertional to the life-shortening stress they're taking on?

Designing laws around statistical outliers seem idiotic. The Dubai prince case is certainly not the norm.

(Using Dubai prince as my general example for "absurd riches+irresponsible behavior" for no reason in particular)

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#244

Post by esfandia »

Joakal wrote: post #202
tempodox wrote: post #159

Maybe calling a machine that has just demonstrated its profound stupidity an “Artificial Intelligence” is part of the problem. This crappy tech is overhyped and overrated.

Would machine learning be preferred?

"Pattern Recognition" is the most accurate term IMO (at least as far as this particular tech is concerned, and yes it is a subset of Machine Learning), and it doesn't pretend to be something it's not.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#245

Post by arghwhat »

monadgonad wrote: post #237
arghwhat wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not say that people chose to be poor. However, it does not seem fair to be punished for working harder than required.

You're not being punished for that, you're being punished for a crime. That happens to be proportional to what you can give. What's not fair is fines that barely impact wealthy people.

Neither does it seem fair that I'll be fined twice as much if I work twice the hours, does it?

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#246

Post by monadgonad »

arghwhat wrote: post #230
yesenadam wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems ridiculous to me to assume, as you seem to, that rich=hardworking and poor=lazy. Why not rich=lazy, poor=hardworking? That seems to make at least as much sense to me, to correspond to reality. No-one mentioned "changing the magnitude of the crime". The point is, if you get a $1000 fine, that could mean absolutely nothing to a millionaire/billionaire, but a lot to someone with $1000. Yet you talk as if fining…

This only holds for those that a born rich, or fell upon immense luck. For those below Dubai princes, the riches come from an entirely distorted work/life balance where you are never really off-duty, and immense responsibility. I intend to get there one day with hard work so my family can be well off. However, I do not see why it makes sense to punish me for it. Fining me twice as much because I work double the hours…

> Fining me twice as much because I work double the hours is unfair, and it certainly doesn't encourage growth.

Why on earth should a fine punishing you for a crime try to encourage growth?

> I intend to get there one day with hard work so my family can be well off.

Oh, it's almost as if your kids will grow up with wealth that they didn't have to work to earn, thus not being anything to do with how hardworking or lazy they are. Almost as if they'll be born rich, falling upon immense luck.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#247

Post by GuiA »

arghwhat wrote: post #230
yesenadam wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems ridiculous to me to assume, as you seem to, that rich=hardworking and poor=lazy. Why not rich=lazy, poor=hardworking? That seems to make at least as much sense to me, to correspond to reality. No-one mentioned "changing the magnitude of the crime". The point is, if you get a $1000 fine, that could mean absolutely nothing to a millionaire/billionaire, but a lot to someone with $1000. Yet you talk as if fining…

This only holds for those that a born rich, or fell upon immense luck. For those below Dubai princes, the riches come from an entirely distorted work/life balance where you are never really off-duty, and immense responsibility. I intend to get there one day with hard work so my family can be well off. However, I do not see why it makes sense to punish me for it. Fining me twice as much because I work double the hours…

> I intend to get there one day with hard work so my family can be well off.

One day? You mean you aren’t rich yet? Sounds to me like you’re just a lazy bum making excuses.

/s

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#248

Post by scrollaway »

icebraining wrote: post #33
BonsaiDen wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That however goes both ways, making it also far easier to install a dictatorship etc. because you don't have to replace tens of thousands of police officers with regime loyal ones. We're walking on razors edge here, it only takes one "election gone wrong" and we might find ourselves in a nightmare with no escape.

When has a dictatorship been prevented by the lack of loyal police officers?

AI-driven justice etc is lowering the cost of dictatorship. It's literally lowering the barrier to installing an authoritarian regime, that's what's scary about it. (ref. "The Dictator's Handbook", my favourite political book, as to why this is a problem)

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#249

Post by arghwhat »

qw wrote: post #239
arghwhat wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not say that people chose to be poor. However, it does not seem fair to be punished for working harder than required.

I don’t think there is proof that a there is a connection between the salary level and how hard someone works. A person who works at minimum wage may work as hard as anyone else. Just look at all those who have to work two jobs to feed their family. I would think that if they had the opportunity to work harder at a single job and make more money, they would.

I did not say that salary = work. However, given your salary, increasing your effort increases your reward.

A lazy banker earns more than a productive grocery store employee, but a grocery store employee taking twice as many shifts earns twice as much money as the regular grocery store employee.

And they should not be punished for doing so.

To roughly quantify a salary, it would be something like salary = base salary of trade x negotiation factor x hard work factor. Hard work should not be punished. If you want to equal out various types of work, you could say "based on average income for your position", rather than your income, but then other problems appear.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#250

Post by [deleted] »

burfog wrote: post #199
skywhopper wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be willfully misunderstanding the point. But I suspect that’s intentional. If you really think this, please do some reading on the subject of how court fees and small-scale civil violations and all the consequences of those things can lead to a vicious cycle of financial destruction for families on the edge of economic self sufficiency.

I'm not misunderstanding it. I'm saying there is no good solution here. Feel free to propose a punishment that isn't disproportionate to somebody. I don't think such a punishment exists, aside from crazy edge cases like "do not enforce the law". Go ahead. Try to make a suggestion that won't punish some people more than others. In case it makes you feel any better about the system of fines, we can say that the disprop…

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