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AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

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Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#71

Post by ams6110 »

tjoff wrote: post #22
icebraining wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying Google's support is good. I'm saying the automation is not necessarily the culprit for its ills.

I'd say that the automation enables it to be an order of magnitude worse. And it will be worse for any entity that doesn't really care about it.

It's probably worse for a few, and better for a lot. Maybe the Google automation is shutting down a hundred nefarious developers for every one legitimate developer. Without the automation all would be active; with the automation one guy gets screwed and it's hard for him to navigate his way back, but thousands of users are better off

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#72

Post by red75prime »

lisper wrote: post #42

Ironically, the better the AI, the worse this problem is going to get. The error rate will never be zero, but the closer it gets to zero, the more the AI's judgement will be presumed to be correct by the legal system. So if you happen to be one of those unlucky souls who draws the false-positive card in an era where those are rare, you could be totally hosed.

At least you can hope that upcoming updates can fix it.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#73

Post by allannienhuis »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #60
raleigh_user wrote: post #44

Heres further proof the justice system is screwed. Yesterday I was stopped while driving for not having current tags. Registration was renewed but I didn't have the sticker yet. Cop looked at my paperwork said all good be back in 5. Come to find out, I haven't had a valid license in 5 years. There was a mistake in court 5 years ago when I paid a fine (speeding ticket). I have a receipt from court saying all settled/m…

Hold the government employees liable (monetarily and criminally if they cause a loss of rights) for their mistakes and the problem will fix itself in quick order.

If employees were personally liable for costs of mistakes, no one would do the work - too much personal risk involved. Also, the degree of blaming anyone-but-me would be off the charts, crippling the organization. Having some type of accountability is important - incompetent people should not be allowed to keep their job, and institutions should have some incentive to improve, but not sure putting all the burden on individuals is the right answer.

What if you had to pay the cost of every bug you created? I'm sure a lot of us developers would be digging ditches instead. :)

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#74

Post by ams6110 »

raleigh_user wrote: post #44

Heres further proof the justice system is screwed. Yesterday I was stopped while driving for not having current tags. Registration was renewed but I didn't have the sticker yet. Cop looked at my paperwork said all good be back in 5. Come to find out, I haven't had a valid license in 5 years. There was a mistake in court 5 years ago when I paid a fine (speeding ticket). I have a receipt from court saying all settled/m…

This doesn't pass the smell test. If you have a receipt from the court showing that the fine was settled, how can they be saying they never got the money?

As an aside this is a good reminder to keep forever any receipts for settlements with courts, the IRS, or other regulators.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#75

Post by _trampeltier »

allannienhuis wrote: post #62
raleigh_user wrote: post #44

Heres further proof the justice system is screwed. Yesterday I was stopped while driving for not having current tags. Registration was renewed but I didn't have the sticker yet. Cop looked at my paperwork said all good be back in 5. Come to find out, I haven't had a valid license in 5 years. There was a mistake in court 5 years ago when I paid a fine (speeding ticket). I have a receipt from court saying all settled/m…

It's a shame that costs for fighting issues like that aren't automatically awarded. I have no idea about the relevant laws and how they might be shaped to protect the institutions involved, but it would seem to be a sane way to deal with this type of thing, and provide a small amount of accountability for the institutions (and therefore _some_ incentive to fix systemic issues).

Why change something. Now they get even more money. Sad but true.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#76

Post by ryacko »

slyall wrote: post #67
maxxxxx wrote: post #4

Add to that a justice system also mostly automated and you are quickly caught in a Kafkaesque nightmare you can't get out if something goes wrong. Imagine the justice system run like google support. Even if something is clearly wrong you can't clear it up if you are not a famous person with a big Twitter following.

A classic short story along this line is: Computers Don't Argue by Gordon R. Dickson A man has a complaint with his book club, but a series of errors escalate things alarmingly. The Wikipedia article has the whole plot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computers_Don%27t_Argue

Or have the actual story:

https://www.atariarchives.org/bcc2/showpage.php?page=133

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#77

Post by raleigh_user »

ams6110 wrote: post #74
raleigh_user wrote: post #44

Heres further proof the justice system is screwed. Yesterday I was stopped while driving for not having current tags. Registration was renewed but I didn't have the sticker yet. Cop looked at my paperwork said all good be back in 5. Come to find out, I haven't had a valid license in 5 years. There was a mistake in court 5 years ago when I paid a fine (speeding ticket). I have a receipt from court saying all settled/m…

This doesn't pass the smell test. If you have a receipt from the court showing that the fine was settled, how can they be saying they never got the money? As an aside this is a good reminder to keep forever any receipts for settlements with courts, the IRS, or other regulators.

Ha I kid you not I didn't believe it would pass the smell test either.

However I got a $285 ticket proving it yesterday. Courts aren't open on the weekends so my lawyer will be figuring it out tomorrow.

I will be in the DMV first thing in the morning to try to get a new license so I can travel home (went to parents house for Holiday). I have to pay a $65 reinstatement fee tomorrow to get a new license as well.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#78

Post by EGreg »

lisper wrote: post #42

Ironically, the better the AI, the worse this problem is going to get. The error rate will never be zero, but the closer it gets to zero, the more the AI's judgement will be presumed to be correct by the legal system. So if you happen to be one of those unlucky souls who draws the false-positive card in an era where those are rare, you could be totally hosed.

I always thought this movie premise was entirely contrived but now I am not so sure:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TVvGEj84y98

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#79

Post by ams6110 »

raleigh_user wrote: post #66
allannienhuis wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a shame that costs for fighting issues like that aren't automatically awarded. I have no idea about the relevant laws and how they might be shaped to protect the institutions involved, but it would seem to be a sane way to deal with this type of thing, and provide a small amount of accountability for the institutions (and therefore _some_ incentive to fix systemic issues).

Yeah I was kind of shocked when the lawyer said yesterday I'd be on the hook for more costs. I almost assumed it'd be free or credited since it was taken care of and is probably an honest mistake. But, I guess that proves what they say about assumptions!

If you are hiring a lawyer to help with this, sure you will have to pay his fees, which are probably going to be several hundred dollars at least.

Did you try just going into the office of the clerk of the court with the receipt and saying "hey there's been a mistake."

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#80

Post by icebraining »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #55
icebraining wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could be a matter of scale - being able to improve the bias in a human doesn't mean you can do so for all 900,000 sworn law enforcement officers in the US (or any other country). On the other hand, you can update 900,000 computer processes in a relatively short time.

The 900k computer processes are unlikely to refuse to follow the updated protocol because it's immoral/fascist/illiberal/undemocratic/whatever too. Cuts both ways it seems.

I'm not sure the humans are particularly likely to refuse immoral, fascist or undemocratic orders.
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