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AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

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Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#61

Post by pbhjpbhj »

guitarbill wrote: post #53
danso wrote: post #43

This system seems dumber and simpler than I had imagined it would be. I had guessed the face recognition system would be linked to each citizen's cellphone (i.e. GPS coordinates). How else could it be so certain of any given person's identity, in densely and highly populated areas?

On the other hand, would be pretty easy to fool then by leaving your phone at home.

If you leave your phone at home the automated number plate reader you pass on the way out of your village/suburb/estate stops and locks your electric vehicle and you wait inside for 3 hours. A police tow truck takes you to court. Two days later you're releases by the [AI] judges clerk ... you decide to always carry your government ID enabled mobile device in future ...

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#62

Post by allannienhuis »

raleigh_user wrote: post #44

Heres further proof the justice system is screwed. Yesterday I was stopped while driving for not having current tags. Registration was renewed but I didn't have the sticker yet. Cop looked at my paperwork said all good be back in 5. Come to find out, I haven't had a valid license in 5 years. There was a mistake in court 5 years ago when I paid a fine (speeding ticket). I have a receipt from court saying all settled/m…

It's a shame that costs for fighting issues like that aren't automatically awarded. I have no idea about the relevant laws and how they might be shaped to protect the institutions involved, but it would seem to be a sane way to deal with this type of thing, and provide a small amount of accountability for the institutions (and therefore _some_ incentive to fix systemic issues).

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#63

Post by raleigh_user »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #60
raleigh_user wrote: post #44

Heres further proof the justice system is screwed. Yesterday I was stopped while driving for not having current tags. Registration was renewed but I didn't have the sticker yet. Cop looked at my paperwork said all good be back in 5. Come to find out, I haven't had a valid license in 5 years. There was a mistake in court 5 years ago when I paid a fine (speeding ticket). I have a receipt from court saying all settled/m…

Hold the government employees liable (monetarily and criminally if they cause a loss of rights) for their mistakes and the problem will fix itself in quick order.

That might help. I am no expert on govt stuff so I will defer to those who are. But it does suck I don't have an ID right now. You never notice how often you use it (travel, bars, events) until you don't have one!

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#64

Post by icebraining »

tivert wrote: post #26
icebraining wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, a justice system which has most of the menial tasks automated might have more resources to do the important tasks well. Similarly, Google could have a mostly automated system detecting violations and such, and also a good human support system with power to override the decisions of the former; the two are not really incompatible.

> have a mostly automated system detecting violations and such, and also a good human support system with power to override the decisions of the former; the two are not really incompatible. While that's true in the abstract, I don't think it's true in present society. Both private companies and government are under near-constant pressure to cut costs, and the people who are charged with implementing those cuts will b…

The exact same argument can be made to those criticizing the use of automation: it doesn't matter, because that pressure means it will be used anyway. And the whole discussion becomes meaningless.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#65

Post by starbeast »

crazygringo wrote: post #5

That's absolutely hilarious. But at least it was easily fixed. But to anyone complaining about how this is dystopian: compare it to human police officers who can racially profile and exhibit their prejudices to disproportionately target segments of the population, and which there is absolutely zero easy fix for, especially when we consider how prevalent unconscious bias is. At least an automated system can be analyze…

>But to anyone complaining about how this is dystopian: compare it to human police officers who can racially profile and exhibit their prejudices to disproportionately target segments of the population, and which there is absolutely zero easy fix for, especially when we consider how prevalent unconscious bias is.

Now we can automate the biases of people so broad-brush and incompetent in approach, that they would install an AI system that automatically charges people for jaywalking, without it also having been trained on the set of things that commonly exist on roads. Great.

>At least an automated system can be analyzed for bias and, when it's found, corrected.

That sounds expensive. Why do that when you can make something cheap that mostly works and just hit cancel should it accidentally target anyone important?

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#66

Post by raleigh_user »

allannienhuis wrote: post #62
raleigh_user wrote: post #44

Heres further proof the justice system is screwed. Yesterday I was stopped while driving for not having current tags. Registration was renewed but I didn't have the sticker yet. Cop looked at my paperwork said all good be back in 5. Come to find out, I haven't had a valid license in 5 years. There was a mistake in court 5 years ago when I paid a fine (speeding ticket). I have a receipt from court saying all settled/m…

It's a shame that costs for fighting issues like that aren't automatically awarded. I have no idea about the relevant laws and how they might be shaped to protect the institutions involved, but it would seem to be a sane way to deal with this type of thing, and provide a small amount of accountability for the institutions (and therefore _some_ incentive to fix systemic issues).

Yeah I was kind of shocked when the lawyer said yesterday I'd be on the hook for more costs. I almost assumed it'd be free or credited since it was taken care of and is probably an honest mistake.

But, I guess that proves what they say about assumptions!

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#67

Post by slyall »

maxxxxx wrote: post #4

Add to that a justice system also mostly automated and you are quickly caught in a Kafkaesque nightmare you can't get out if something goes wrong. Imagine the justice system run like google support. Even if something is clearly wrong you can't clear it up if you are not a famous person with a big Twitter following.

A classic short story along this line is:

Computers Don't Argue by Gordon R. Dickson

A man has a complaint with his book club, but a series of errors escalate things alarmingly.

The Wikipedia article has the whole plot:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computers_Don%27t_Argue

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#68

Post by guitarbill »

rocqua wrote: post #27
roymurdock wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there will always be humans programming and running these systems at the end of the day. in the best case they will be heavily audited and will not be allowed to make important decisions. in the worst case biases will be programmed into the systems decision making algorithms, amplifying the power of those controlling the systems one of the best systems we've come up with for government relies on biased actors fightin…

A machine can be tested for bias and measures taken against such bias are certainly followed. The same does not hold for humans. Detecting the bias (down to the person level) is very hard. Going on to remedy it is even harder. You can't (or at least shouldn't) reprogram people. In other words, you can change a racist machine, but not a racist cop.

> A machine can be tested for bias and measures taken against such bias are certainly followed.

To what degree? Based on first-order data, some populations really do commit more crime. However, we know that background/poverty is the real, underlying cause.

And even if we fed enough data to an algorithm to avoid that bias, avoiding the bias isn't enough. What you really want to do is tackle the cause. If the AI is a black box, you'd never know.

The problem with AI is almost always a lack of transparency, especially in the specific case, and not the general/overall case. Most training doesn't focus on this. Besides, the AI would limited by how good the bias tests we can come up with are.

Edit: For some use-cases, this general case optimisation is a feature, e.g. token customer service for cheap companies. Also much easier to control people who aren't that different.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#69

Post by [deleted] »

raleigh_user wrote: post #44

Heres further proof the justice system is screwed. Yesterday I was stopped while driving for not having current tags. Registration was renewed but I didn't have the sticker yet. Cop looked at my paperwork said all good be back in 5. Come to find out, I haven't had a valid license in 5 years. There was a mistake in court 5 years ago when I paid a fine (speeding ticket). I have a receipt from court saying all settled/m…

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