AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking • Hacker News Board

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#101

Post by Jasper_ » Sun, Nov 25, 2018, 8:06 PM UTC

rocqua wrote: post #27

roymurdock wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there will always be humans programming and running these systems at the end of the day. in the best case they will be heavily audited and will not be allowed to make important decisions. in the worst case biases will be programmed into the systems decision making algorithms, amplifying the power of those controlling the systems one of the best systems we've come up with for government relies on biased actors fightin…

A machine can be tested for bias and measures taken against such bias are certainly followed. The same does not hold for humans. Detecting the bias (down to the person level) is very hard. Going on to remedy it is even harder. You can't (or at least shouldn't) reprogram people. In other words, you can change a racist machine, but not a racist cop.

The data we have isn't crime data. It's arrest data. Even when the programmers aren't trying to introduce bias, by training on arrest data from racist cops, the machine will learn the racist decisions as well.

And people trust it more because "computers can't be racist"

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#102

Post by raleigh_user » Sun, Nov 25, 2018, 8:07 PM UTC

simion314 wrote: post #98

ams6110 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't pass the smell test. If you have a receipt from the court showing that the fine was settled, how can they be saying they never got the money? As an aside this is a good reminder to keep forever any receipts for settlements with courts, the IRS, or other regulators.

>If you have a receipt from the court showing that the fine was settled, how can they be saying they never got the money? I assume the payment did not triggered the right things to mark the fine as payed, or someone made a mistake a number somewhere and something failed. You should always keep your receipt for a while or forever (keep energy/phone bills for a few months)

Yep. That is most likely what happened. Really put a dent in plans but thankfully I can uber!

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#103

Post by raleigh_user » Sun, Nov 25, 2018, 8:08 PM UTC

paulie_a wrote: post #100

raleigh_user wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno. Maybe. But I don't have interest in doing that. Which will probably contribute to this continuing. But its easier for me to just pay and move on. If I were to spend another 10 hours on this there is a time cost to doing so that is not worth it for me.

Unfortunately sometimes it's just not worth the fight personally. But it's understandable.

yep. My sole focus is being able to travel home tomorrow (legally) and go to work. Else, I am going to get on a bus to go home and uber to and from work for the next few days while this is worked on.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#104

Post by reaperducer » Sun, Nov 25, 2018, 8:09 PM UTC

matthewmacleod wrote: post #93

guitarbill wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monzo is great, but it's easy for them with their use-case. How do you pay in cash? How do you order foreign currency? I'm glad somebody is eating UK banks' lunches though, since they're universally awful.

How do you pay in cash? They've added (this week) the ability to pay in small amounts of cash through the Paypoint network ( https://monzo.com/blog/2018/11/21/deposit-cash/ ) and I believe they'll eventually add support for paying in thorough Post Office branches too. It's still pretty limited, but it's a start! How do you order foreign currency? Honestly I had no idea people even used their bank to do this!

How do you order foreign currency?

Honestly I had no idea people even used their bank to do this!

I do this all the time. Citibank has a service called World Wallet where you call a number, and they'll FedEx you whatever currency you want anywhere in the world in 24-48 hours.

I used to just use the American Express offices when I traveled, but as my travel got more interesting, AmEx outlets became less common. Also, AmEx started only stocking popular currencies, while the Citi service delivers pretty much any currency that's legal where you are.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#105

Post by pteredactyl » Sun, Nov 25, 2018, 8:11 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #16

SN76477 wrote: post #7

Imagine that she wasnt a famous CEO and lost her job and spent the rest of her life struggling because of a silly mistake.

It's China. So she's just have her social credit score repeatedly dinged every time the bus ran a red light until she wasn't allowed to travel anymore, wasn't allowed to work anymore, wasn't allowed to have a bank account, or allowed out of her apartment. Bureaucracy is so much more efficient when everything is automated, and we're all tabulated. We can just let the computers disappear troublesome people. If a few pe…

This is exactly why the role of the state, in general, needs a much closer examination.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#106

Post by allannienhuis » Sun, Nov 25, 2018, 8:12 PM UTC

_trampeltier wrote: post #75

allannienhuis wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a shame that costs for fighting issues like that aren't automatically awarded. I have no idea about the relevant laws and how they might be shaped to protect the institutions involved, but it would seem to be a sane way to deal with this type of thing, and provide a small amount of accountability for the institutions (and therefore _some_ incentive to fix systemic issues).

Why change something. Now they get even more money. Sad but true.

sorry, I have no idea what you're trying to say.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#107

Post by reaperducer » Sun, Nov 25, 2018, 8:12 PM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #33

BonsaiDen wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That however goes both ways, making it also far easier to install a dictatorship etc. because you don't have to replace tens of thousands of police officers with regime loyal ones. We're walking on razors edge here, it only takes one "election gone wrong" and we might find ourselves in a nightmare with no escape.

When has a dictatorship been prevented by the lack of loyal police officers?

If you include the military in the definition of "police," then just Google "failed coup" and take your pick.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#108

Post by newname2018 » Sun, Nov 25, 2018, 8:14 PM UTC

It's good that some famous person is getting hit with this.maybe it will create doubt within the court system that we all may benefit from.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#109

Post by burfog » Sun, Nov 25, 2018, 8:15 PM UTC

goatsi wrote: post #84

raleigh_user wrote: post #44

Heres further proof the justice system is screwed. Yesterday I was stopped while driving for not having current tags. Registration was renewed but I didn't have the sticker yet. Cop looked at my paperwork said all good be back in 5. Come to find out, I haven't had a valid license in 5 years. There was a mistake in court 5 years ago when I paid a fine (speeding ticket). I have a receipt from court saying all settled/m…

>I am lucky. I can pay that. It sucks but some people would be out food money if they suddenly had to pay $500 to drive again. Absolutely, court fees and fines disproportionately punish those with low incomes. Increasing enforcement of low level violations by surveillance tech and/or AI is going to crush a lot of people if we don't change that fact. https://www.npr.org/2014/05/19/312158516/increasing-court-fe... http…

NOTE: not specifically about jaywalking, but about fines/fees being disproportionate punishment in general

Jail disproportionately punishes those who are working. (they lose their income source, then they can't pay bills, then their house gets foreclosed, etc.)

Ditching punishment entirely means free-for-all anarchy until somebody takes that opportunity to impose a government with punishments.

What options are left? Torture? Execution? Ignoring the masochists and the suicidal, those don't disproportionately punish people.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#110

Post by infinity0 » Sun, Nov 25, 2018, 8:16 PM UTC

> The police said they have upgraded their tech to avoid issues like this in the future.

  if (person_id == "Dong Mingzhu") {
    // TODO: generalise this
    return false
  }