College May Not Be Worth It Anymore • Hacker News Board

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#181

Post by jawns » Thu, May 17, 2018, 5:09 PM UTC

I see a common thread in many of these comments.

It's a recognition that college just happens to be where bright and ambitious young people tend to go after high school. And yes, there's value in the education itself -- but one of the big and lasting benefits is the network of other bright and ambitious young people you meet and form friendships with. I know that was true of my own college experience.

So here's a thought.

Back before the Internet, it was hard for people with similar interests or goals to connect with each other and organize themselves, and so they used this "going to college" experience to help them meet other similarly bright and ambitious people.

But now that we have the Internet, could it be possible to crowdsource that kind of experience without needing to buy into the institutional college experience?

Like, "Let's get together 50 to 100 other like-minded people, all move into the same area, and meet regularly at the library or the coffee shop or whatnot and help each other improve our skills."

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#182

Post by derefr » Thu, May 17, 2018, 5:09 PM UTC

shaftway wrote: post #171

aarongough wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a degree and honestly have never had any issues with recruiters or interviews for intermediate/senior 'software engineering' positions. I never represent myself as having a degree, but I don't go out of my way to point out my lack of degree either. Never once in an interview have I been asked about my education. One nice thing about software development positions is the interview process tends to be meri…

I don't have a degree and it almost never fails to come up. Ultimately I flunked out (for a variety of reasons). I've done a lot of A/B(/C/D/E) testing with my resume: - Don't include education - I'm asked about it. Every. Single. Time. - Include the years I attended college - Asked why I didn't finish. Every. Single. Time. - Include college in a misleading way - I did a summer extension program for 2 years while in…

> I really want my doctor to actually have an MD

How do you feel about the fact that doctors from foreign countries need to requalify in the US with a whole ‘nother MD program here? Even if they’re from a country with as-or-more stringent requirements, and decades of experience?

“Higher education” is sometimes, in hiring, a dog-whistle for “enculturated to the US because they attended college here.”

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#183

Post by embulldogs99 » Thu, May 17, 2018, 5:09 PM UTC

Her arguement is basically: If you are going to suck at school, dont go. Then she tries to use that to rationalize NOT going to school. How about all the people school has helped?

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#184

Post by freeopinion » Thu, May 17, 2018, 5:10 PM UTC

j_gu wrote: post #149

passivepinetree wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't true at all. IQ is much less important than work ethic and attitude at many/most jobs.

So why then does the US military place people according to the ASVAB?

College degree and ASVAB results are not similar criteria at all. They serve completely different purposes.

A college degree shows an ability to complete a specific course of discipline. It does not really even indicate aptitude in the discipline. Just the ability to follow through and complete the requirements. I suppose it shows a minimum level of aptitude in that you didn't give up hope and quit.

ASVAB doesn't indicate the ability to follow through with anything. It tries to hint at aptitude in a wide range of disciplines. It purports to provide your relative capabilities and interest in many topics.

That is why the military relies on ASVAB. They don't need to know your level of stick-to-it-ness or discipline. They will beat that into you or drum you out very quickly. They are more interested in where among hundreds of specialties you are most likely to fit.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#185

Post by jcranmer » Thu, May 17, 2018, 5:11 PM UTC

jpeg_hero wrote: post #54

How do you know you live in an SF bubble? > A third of Americans aged 25-29 have a bachelors degree I know one persons without a degree. > earn only a bit more than do people with only a high school education: $38,376 a year versus $35,256 At my company an annual raise of less than $25k is seen as an insult.

> At my company an annual raise of less than $25k is seen as an insult.

Did you drop a decimal point? A 5% raise would need a salary of $500,000 to hit $25k.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#186

Post by derefr » Thu, May 17, 2018, 5:12 PM UTC

Consultant32452 wrote: post #110

awalton wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is probably a good thing, since it will slowly beat into the minds of upper-levels at corps and recruiters that a College Degree shouldn't be the minimum bar applicants need to reach, and maybe some of these companies will start removing the "has degree" band reject filter.

Employers are generally looking for a proxy for iq, since testing iq directly has potential legal problems. SAT, ASVAB, grades, degree attainment are often just proxies for iq. I think if Congress passes a law explicitly allowing iq tests for all job applications we'll see many of these seemingly irrational job requirements fade away.

Sure, the employer (maybe) can’t test for IQ it themselves—but why not have a public policy of “appreciating” if people bring you a credential from an external IQ testing firm? (I.e. the sort of formal testing MENSA does, but without the social club.)

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#187

Post by hamandcheese » Thu, May 17, 2018, 5:12 PM UTC

luma wrote: post #108

timr wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if not all college degrees are worthwhile, it doesn't mean that companies are wrong to want college degrees. In fact, it's probably true that the highest-paid, highest-skill jobs have the most genuine need for college degrees. And for the rest, virtue signaling is a real thing: if you have more applicants than jobs, you set up high filters to winnow the pool.

You seem to be suggesting that the simple addition of a degree requirement is good because it narrows the search field. By this same argument, I could say I will only accept candidates that are left handed.

You should blindly throw away half of all resumes. Why? Because you don't want to hire someone with bad luck.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#188

Post by sigstoat » Thu, May 17, 2018, 5:12 PM UTC

sologoub wrote: post #24

meanmrmustard92 wrote: post #6

This massively misrepresents Tim Bartik's work on the topic. Bartik wrote a long thread here:Check out @TimBartik’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/TimBartik/status/996865804179263489?s=09

Reading the article I thought to myself that it’s a crappy piece that oversimplifies the complex landscape and tries to draw sensationalist conclusions... but after reading the Tweeter thread by the very scientist who’s work is cited, the article looks intentionally false and a retraction worthy. Instead of saying that college is not worth it, why don’t we do MORE to make it free? Even if people don’t end up using th…

> Instead of saying that college is not worth it, why don’t we do MORE to make it free?

you don't make things more cost effective by changing who pays for them. you just get more people taking advantage of the cost ineffective good.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#189

Post by blueseaadmin » Thu, May 17, 2018, 5:14 PM UTC

Eire_Banshee wrote: post #175

deadmetheny wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The $50k is assuming financing. Nobody realistically pays for college tuition out-of-pocket unless they were lucky and their parents set up a fund for it. Source: myself and literally every single college person I know who attended public universities in the Midwest

I paid out of pocket. Just had to do the national guard for 6 years. They paid for like, 90% of it. It was pretty dope.

Kudos to you for serving. Thank you. More kids should do the same. I did.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#190

Post by gowld » Thu, May 17, 2018, 5:15 PM UTC

eanzenberg wrote: post #99

imglorp wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree - I think we should consider a well educated base of voters, workers, and neighbors as critical infrastucture along with roads and internet. I think some decisions lately have highlighted an open hostility towards science, education, and by implication, democracy. This needs to be reversed.

I do too, a core belief is that educated people are critical to success on a national and world level. However, colleges have an aggressive liberal slant which for me took a decade to even out to center.

Europeans observe that USA at large has an aggressive conservative slant.

I understand it's changed recently, but colleges (and lower schools) traditionally had a very conservative curriculum in general education / liberal arts core of Economics, Literature, and History.