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The concept of schizophrenia is dying

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Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#101

Post by manmal »

coldtea wrote: post #64
manmal wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not call him genius. Alfred Adler perhaps was. Freud was a misogyn and a drug addict, and he proposed a lot of theories that leave modern people scratching their heads. Eg he attributed almost all mental problems to sexuality, coined the ridiculous Oedipus complex, and once called girls „strange little beings without a penis“. Sure, the field was at the very beginning, but why did he always have to bring peni…

> Freud was a misogyn and a drug addict, and he proposed a lot of theories that leave modern people scratching their heads. All three are totally orthogonal to someone being a genius -- and at least the second is a very puritan concern to level at someone regarding their contributions to science/culture/etc. > Eg he attributed almost all mental problems to sexuality And a heck of a lot (of the soft kind, not physiolo…

Your arguments are rather philosophical than based on hard facts (IMO that’s a big problem with a lot of psych research, giving the field a bad rep). Those ideas have been discarded via proper scientific studies, and research has long moved on. Psychoanalytics who hold onto Freud need their patients to come to them for years or even decades - I think this also tells a lot about the efficacy of applying Freudian theories clinically. Behavioral therapy works way better and faster, and it does so by integrating our knowledge about how the brain works.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#102

Post by nnfy »

chris_wot wrote: post #31
nnfy wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because he has a problem with fear mongering.

It’s not fear mongering. The Lancet published an article about continued and discontinued use of cannabis after psychosis. http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-03... But it states that there is a well established link between cannabis and psychosis.

No, this is disingenuous fear mongering.

The article you linked examines psychosis outcomes after quitting marijuana. It does not show evidence that psychosis is caused by marijuana.

In fact, the article is similarly misleading, as it makes reference to two studies which show, in the article's words, a "link" between psychosis and cannibus use. However, the two articles cited for this assertion [0][1] similarly only discuss a correlative link between psychosis and marijuana.

While the correlative relationship between marijuana and psychosis is well established, there is anything but a consensus for the causal relationship between illness and marijuana.

As they say, correlation != causation.

Edit: furthermore, I encourage you to browse the wikipedia page [2], which supports my assertion with multiple sources: neither consensus nor causal link has been established. You are spreading potentially harmful misinformation.

[0]Arseneault, L, Cannon, M, Witton, J, and Murray, RM. Causal association between cannabis and psychosis: examination of the evidence. Br J Psychiatry. 2004; 184: 110–117

[1]Stepniak, B, Papiol, S, Hammer, C et al. Accumulated environmental risk determining age at schizophrenia onset: a deep phenotyping-based study. Lancet Psychiatry. 2014; 1: 444–453

[2]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-term_effects_of_cannabi...

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#103

Post by RHSman2 »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #67
empath75 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of those feelings are pretty common if you smoke too much pot. I have a very low tolerance for it and while I had a few good times with it, I had what you describe happen more often than not. But the feeling you have while on drugs generally goes away when you’re not on them. I wouldn’t assume that because taking a drug gives you a feeling that approximates a psychological problem that it would necessarily be a…

I don't make that assumption at all. But I've also seen many people, including family, go down a road with the drug that did in fact lead to pretty severe emotional and life function difficulties that went away after the cessation of the drug. All of this applies to alcohol as well, surely... but that is hardly a high bar. I was a lot more tolerant of cannabis advocacy before I had kids and before legalization came o…

Yes, when kids come around you view it in a different light. There are consequences of both and I'll advise my kids differently around both.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#104

Post by gkya »

ionised wrote: post #97
gkya wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah whatever you don't like is evil fearmongering. And they don't even say trying it will drive you nuts.

Quoting obviously nonsense statistics in this case seems like fear-mongering to me.

There is a reference to a study on the topic elsewhere on the thread, and in the article itself, if I'm not mistaken. Also AFAIK it's not required to be a medical doctor to talk about these issues here, and not everyone has a list of publications on every topic they discuss. If you think a view is wrong then answer it, but name-calling and accusations only undermine any such discussion. It's not like the opposer is citing the literature too.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#105

Post by coldtea »

mercer wrote: post #75
coldtea wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> can you explain why you feel so strongly about this? Because he doesn't like BS arguments? And because "so strongly" is not based on some objective measurement, but what you could gauge from a random comment. Maybe he likes/is used to using strong language (e.g. like Linus is) without necessarily feeling that "strongly" about it.

> Because he doesn't like BS arguments? I agree that they're BS, but they're common and pernicious, and as such worth a proper response, frustrating as that might be. > And because "so strongly" is not based on some objective measurement, but what you could gauge from a random comment. Maybe he likes/is used to using strong language (e.g. like Linus is) without necessarily feeling that "strongly" about it. Fair enoug…

Well, you might be right too (I haven't noticed that the parent had multiple comments about it).

Just that I find a question like "why do you feel so strongly about X" can be infuriating, and make the other indeed feel strongly (when they were just casually writing their opinion with some strong words before).

Kind of like "relax" can make someone angry ("I AM relax") when they were perfectly relaxed before.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#106

Post by coldtea »

StavrosK wrote: post #81
coldtea wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or insist on actual LSD and not some cheap psychoactive passing as such?

Pretty sure it was LSD (and mushrooms once), I've bought from different people.

Saying that because I've seen people selling crap as LSD before -- especially in one-off encounters.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#107

Post by StavrosK »

coldtea wrote: post #106
StavrosK wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure it was LSD (and mushrooms once), I've bought from different people.

Saying that because I've seen people selling crap as LSD before -- especially in one-off encounters.

Ah, I buy from well-reviewed online vendors only.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#108

Post by vlehto »

Thews wrote: post #84
vlehto wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to be creative to sing or play. You need to be creative to compose. Do we actually know that many creative musicians, writers etc. were creative before using? I'd imagine it's really tricky to track down the starting dates of drug use. Or when someone started composing for that matter. But yeah, that was just to illustrate the point anyhow. And the point is that people self select heavily on which drug…

Could you try them and let us know, instead of speculating what may or may not exist?

...and produce single anecdote. Boy I'm misunderstood here big time.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#109

Post by ionised »

scruple wrote: post #74
azernik wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Psychedelics (LSD and mushrooms) are VERY different in their effects than weed. Have tried both categories.

So have I, and I've had extreme reactions to both. LSD was actually the easiest on me if I consider my worst experiences together. A bad mushroom trip, being the worst of the worst, left my personality in tatters and it took me over a year to truly recover from the experience. Marijuana induces crippling anxiety in me. I was having issues sleeping a few years ago, so I got a medical card. Even one hit was overwhelmin…

A bad trip will happen if you take a psychedelic when you are not in a particularly good mood.

If something has been recently bothering you, or you are stressed or depressed or angry about something, those feelings are going to come up to the surface and manifest in very unpredictable ways, given the nature of hallucinogenics.

I learned that lesson myself. Never take a psychedelic unless you are in a good place, emotionally.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#110

Post by RHSman2 »

RHSman2 wrote: post #90
adammunich wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you mean? Most folks I know who regularly use marijuana aren't close to anything I'd call schizoaffective. Those who I know whom have gone off the deep end so to say, seem to have had other troubles in life which compounded to become too much to handle for them.

Are you replying to me? So, you are suggesting my story is lies? I guess you should study stats to know that there are more than 60 people in this world.

Clearly weed has not helped me comment on HN . Wrong reply
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