The concept of schizophrenia is dying • Hacker News Board

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#11

Post by vacri » Tue, Oct 31, 2017, 7:08 AM UTC

Way back in the 90s when I was doing my neurophysiology degree, one lecturer who worked with schizophrenia said that it was such a difficult disease to work with because it wasn't one disease. Traditionally, if they didn't know what was wrong with you, they just threw you in the 'one-size-fits-all' schizophrenia bucket. One example of this was that the most frequent symptom (hearing voices) was present in only 69% of cases, and all other symptoms dropped off fairly quickly from there.

At the time, he thought that schizophrenia would break up into four basic groups, based on positive/negative affect (does an episode have the person doing extra activity or withdrawing) and, I think, whether or not the person has hallucinations.

I haven't really kept in touch with the literature to see how his 4-way prediction went, but I have never seen anything to counter the idea that schizophrenia is more than a single disease. And, of course, classification of disease is a key element of treating it, so if schizophrenia is not being properly classified...

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#12

Post by dEnigma » Tue, Oct 31, 2017, 7:10 AM UTC

maxscam wrote: post #3

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #2

I would argue that the indications of schizophrenia being associated with weed is ascribing a causative effect to a correlation. Weed doesn’t increase your chances of schizophrenia unless you already had something that would tilt you in that direction in the first place, from my experience. I would say I do agree that schizophrenia probably needs to be broken up; it was merely a collection of symptoms to begin with t…

I was diagnosed schizoid because I was a smartass and said I could "hear things that others couldn't".

I sincerely hope that it took more than just this one sentence for a real doctor to diagnose you as schizoid.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#13

Post by KyeRussell » Tue, Oct 31, 2017, 7:12 AM UTC

njarboe wrote: post #9

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #2

I would argue that the indications of schizophrenia being associated with weed is ascribing a causative effect to a correlation. Weed doesn’t increase your chances of schizophrenia unless you already had something that would tilt you in that direction in the first place, from my experience. I would say I do agree that schizophrenia probably needs to be broken up; it was merely a collection of symptoms to begin with t…

The text does a decent job of not saying smoking weed causes psychosis: "Compared with non-cannabis users, the daily use of high-potency, skunk-like cannabis is associated with a fivefold increase in the odds of someone developing psychosis." But the photo caption below a picture of someone smoking weed explicitly states (not supported by a study; how could one possible do a double blind test on cannabis in the curre…

Given how carefully written that aspect of the actual article text was, I'm assuming that the photo + caption was added later on by someone else who was more interested in clickbait than differentiation between cause and correlation (or didn't understand the difference in the first place). Journalism is dead, rabble rabble.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#14

Post by gscott » Tue, Oct 31, 2017, 7:23 AM UTC

tcj_phx wrote: post #8

I think a good case can be made that many of these "mental disorders" are actually metabolic problems. There are many causes behind an individual's metabolic problem that leads to schizophrenia/dementia/psychosis/(edit3: depression)/etc... Sometimes people are malnourished. The B-vitamins are important cofactors for metabolic activity. An old/new treatment for "schizophrenia" is Vitamin B3 [0]. My girlfriend's treatm…

Doctors are only allowed to give medications that treat a certain disorder. Experimental herbal treatments are not going to resolve a real mental disorder... you can try some vitamins but no medical professional is going to stake their medical license on it. Both of my parents had schizophrenia and it was a real hell.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#15

Post by RHSman2 » Tue, Oct 31, 2017, 7:47 AM UTC

I’d suggest that not taking a drug (weed/lsd/mushrooms) that alter ones perceptions of our very existence is a good way of staying mentally sound.

If you take ten 16 yr olds, allow them to experiment, 1-2 will drop off the world, 2-3 will have major, life changing changes to the way they view life (border line changes in said spectrum) and the rest handle it fine although with a significant change in lifestyle.

As someone who has had a close call with the boundaries of perception I believe weed is of significant concern. It has a ‘benign’ perception but for those it effects it can take their heads off to places which are not healthy for fitting into normal, standard life. Aka the general ‘schizophrenic’ term

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#16

Post by thinkloop » Tue, Oct 31, 2017, 7:49 AM UTC

njarboe wrote: post #9

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #2

I would argue that the indications of schizophrenia being associated with weed is ascribing a causative effect to a correlation. Weed doesn’t increase your chances of schizophrenia unless you already had something that would tilt you in that direction in the first place, from my experience. I would say I do agree that schizophrenia probably needs to be broken up; it was merely a collection of symptoms to begin with t…

The text does a decent job of not saying smoking weed causes psychosis: "Compared with non-cannabis users, the daily use of high-potency, skunk-like cannabis is associated with a fivefold increase in the odds of someone developing psychosis." But the photo caption below a picture of someone smoking weed explicitly states (not supported by a study; how could one possible do a double blind test on cannabis in the curre…

> skunk-like cannabis

Why don't they just go with the "sticky icky"

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#17

Post by kosma » Tue, Oct 31, 2017, 8:14 AM UTC

A significant chunk of schizophrenia-diagnosed patients have already been chipped away; it turned to be autism spectrum disorder instead. I wouldn't be surprised if other such corrected diagnoses followed, gradually dismantling the schizophrenia itself altogether.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#18

Post by dx034 » Tue, Oct 31, 2017, 8:16 AM UTC

KyeRussell wrote: post #13

njarboe wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The text does a decent job of not saying smoking weed causes psychosis: "Compared with non-cannabis users, the daily use of high-potency, skunk-like cannabis is associated with a fivefold increase in the odds of someone developing psychosis." But the photo caption below a picture of someone smoking weed explicitly states (not supported by a study; how could one possible do a double blind test on cannabis in the curre…

Given how carefully written that aspect of the actual article text was, I'm assuming that the photo + caption was added later on by someone else who was more interested in clickbait than differentiation between cause and correlation (or didn't understand the difference in the first place). Journalism is dead, rabble rabble.

Or just not aware of the difference. Not everyone helping with layouts is evil and just wants clickbait. They're just not always experts on the field.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#19

Post by adammunich » Tue, Oct 31, 2017, 8:19 AM UTC

RHSman2 wrote: post #15

I’d suggest that not taking a drug (weed/lsd/mushrooms) that alter ones perceptions of our very existence is a good way of staying mentally sound. If you take ten 16 yr olds, allow them to experiment, 1-2 will drop off the world, 2-3 will have major, life changing changes to the way they view life (border line changes in said spectrum) and the rest handle it fine although with a significant change in lifestyle. As so…

How do you mean? Most folks I know who regularly use marijuana aren't close to anything I'd call schizoaffective.

Those who I know whom have gone off the deep end so to say, seem to have had other troubles in life which compounded to become too much to handle for them.

Re: The concept of schizophrenia is dying

#20

Post by jacobush » Tue, Oct 31, 2017, 8:24 AM UTC

dx034 wrote: post #18

KyeRussell wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given how carefully written that aspect of the actual article text was, I'm assuming that the photo + caption was added later on by someone else who was more interested in clickbait than differentiation between cause and correlation (or didn't understand the difference in the first place). Journalism is dead, rabble rabble.

Or just not aware of the difference. Not everyone helping with layouts is evil and just wants clickbait. They're just not always experts on the field.

Indeed. Also keep in mind, that though someone might realize, on an abstract level, that ”correlation is not causation”, they might not be used to actively looking for that distinction in text. Everyday discussions tend to be more fluid and inexact.