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HM Prison – A Survival Guide (2015)

prisonism.co.uk

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Re: HM Prison – A Survival Guide (2015)

#91

Post by KGIII »

alex_hitchins wrote: post #39
t90fan wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thats more an artefact of the fact that most of our prisons were built in the 1800s. 2 in a cell is common. Until the 90s they never had indoor plumbing either, only buckets in the cells. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slopping_out

The following article is worth a read too on the subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_Strangeways_Prison_riot I believe it was the squalid conditions that sparked the unrest.

There are a number of documentaries where the instigators cite conditions and staff abuses as the reason for the Strangeways Riot.

The two most serious ringleaders are both now free, or were in the most recent doc, and are doing fairl well. One is fond of handing out papers with motivational or philosophical thoughts on them and the other now has his own gym.

Re: HM Prison – A Survival Guide (2015)

#92

Post by jdietrich »

MistahKoala wrote: post #82
jdietrich wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The British prison system became increasingly chaotic during the 1980s, culminating in the notorious 25-day riot in Strangeways prison in 1990. The response was a five-month public enquiry led by Lord Woolf that prompted major reform throughout the prison system. Perhaps the most important single change was the introduction of the Incentives and Earned Privileges scheme. Woolf recognised something that seems obvious…

I'd lay the blame more specifically at Chris Grayling's feet, rather than the Government as a whole. How far he got I don't know, but Michael Gove was addressing IEPs when he took over as Justice Secretary. I felt it was a real shame to have lost him from that role.

The fundamental blunder was appointing Grayling in the first place. He had an ignorant, regressive attitude to criminal justice that we haven't seen since Michael Howard. In addition to wrecking the prison service, Grayling did grievous damage to the courts with the Criminal Courts Charge and the massive cuts to Legal Aid. Gove spent most of his tenure as Justice Secretary undoing the damage that Grayling had done.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jan/28/michael-gov...

Re: HM Prison – A Survival Guide (2015)

#93

Post by newsmania »

alsetmusic wrote: post #63
ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'll give you a hint, though: most of them aren't rapists, murderers, and child molesters. HINT = 15% of the prison population in California are sex offenders.

>> I'll give you a hint, though: most of them aren't rapists, murderers, and child molesters. > HINT = 15% of the prison population in California are sex offenders. Rapists and child molesters would both fall under the sex offender category, meaning 85% of prisoners are not convicted of those crimes (according to your post, which lacks citation). Are you indicating that more than one in three California prisoners are…

I learned from a cop that in New York, if you pee in a public place, you are a sex offender. Basically the cop said he would give the homeless people a citation for something else because it’s crazy to make someone a sex offender for that.

I wonder how many of the sex offenders are a real danger to society, and how many just got put in due to the ridiculous amount of laws we have.

Re: HM Prison – A Survival Guide (2015)

#94

Post by stcredzero »

jackhack wrote: post #31
keiferski wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always held to the "Sin City"[1] philosophy: society's needs change over time, while people fundamentally don't. The existence of prison is just a failure of society to accommodate the wide variety of human natures. Obviously this brings up questions of the "dangerous to society" variety, but a minuscule percentage of prisoners are dangerous psycho killers. [1] Most people think Marv is crazy, but I don't believ…

I can say I would not want to live in a society that "accommodates" the needs of rapists, murderers, child molesters as well as the various petty criminals. Sin City was a dark film, I never found it a model for cultural structure.

I can say I would not want to live in a society that "accommodates" the needs of rapists, murderers, child molesters as well as the various petty criminals.

The communists did this in the Gulag system, by putting the rapists and murders -- who had obviously been victimized by the previous system -- in charge.

Re: HM Prison – A Survival Guide (2015)

#95

Post by jack9 »

aleksei wrote: post #79
cm2187 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it probably prevented hundred of Madoff wannabes...

I'm going to have to insist on a citation for that claim.

It's a mathematical reality, in the context of opportunity. Pretending it's some assertion of future-proofed knowledge is silly.

Re: HM Prison – A Survival Guide (2015)

#96

Post by PhasmaFelis »

ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #48
throwawayxbe8 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about one that accommodates people who possess marijuana? What about a society that accommodates people who have opioid addictions and need medical help? I think you have a rather skewed idea of the majority of our prison population. I'll give you a hint, though: most of them aren't rapists, murderers, and child molesters.

> I'll give you a hint, though: most of them aren't rapists, murderers, and child molesters. HINT = 15% of the prison population in California are sex offenders.

...So you agree? I'm confused.

Re: HM Prison – A Survival Guide (2015)

#97

Post by PhasmaFelis »

thanatropism wrote: post #87
bogomipz wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>" A more recent one is OJ Simpson jailed for some break-and-entering bullshit because everyone wants to punish him for those famous murders." I'm sorry "breaking and entering bullshit"? The crime was armed robbery and kidnapping. And it was OJ Simpson who said that nobody could leave the room which brought up the kidnapping charge. All of this actually happened. Nobody disputes these claims. Nothing to do with break…

I saw a tv show that presented those facts, yes. It also features the Goldman family celebrating that he got any kind of jail time at all. And it was a long sentence too!

So are you saying he shouldn't have been jailed for armed robbery and kidnapping? That seems unreasonable. Or are you saying that the Goldmans shouldn't have been happy he was in prison? Maybe so, but that's got nothing to do with the criminal justice system.

Re: HM Prison – A Survival Guide (2015)

#98

Post by PhasmaFelis »

aleksei wrote: post #37
cm2187 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if don't have prison sentences, how do you prevent the next Madoff? Human nature is what it is, you just can't assume that all citizens are fundamentally good. There needs to be somehow a system of penalty/incentive to behaving well. It's not just about locking dangerous people away.

Prison sentences can't prevent the next Madoff, in the same way that they didn't prevent Madoff.

Perhaps if we tried prosecuting most of the people who commit large-scale financial abuse, instead of throwing the book at one guy and letting the rest off with a wink and a nod.

Re: HM Prison – A Survival Guide (2015)

#99

Post by sslayer »

yodsanklai wrote: post #78
throwawayxbe8 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about one that accommodates people who possess marijuana? What about a society that accommodates people who have opioid addictions and need medical help? I think you have a rather skewed idea of the majority of our prison population. I'll give you a hint, though: most of them aren't rapists, murderers, and child molesters.

> most of them aren't rapists, murderers, and child molesters. I assume there are also a lot of people in prison that aren't rapists or murderers but still cause a lot of troubles if left to their own device. What should be done with these ones? I agree prison is cruel and inhuman and I'm all for better detention conditions, but I don't think it's realistic to suggest we should leave these people walk freely (or to s…

If only we had the equivalent of Australia but in space....

Re: HM Prison – A Survival Guide (2015)

#100

Post by cygaril »

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #58
merpnderp wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this hard to believe? Even with more ready access to guns, Americans stab, beat, and bludgeon more people to death that most countries entire murder rate. The US is a violent country even without counting the guns.

Don't take this to absurdisms. I take it you're not American? The stereotypes about us are no more true than the stereotypes about your country.

I believe GP's claim is factually accurate. The USA has the 4th highest homicide rate in the OECD, after Mexico, Turkey, and Estonia [1]. Roughly 2/3 of US homicides are using firearms [2]. After reducing the US homicide rate by a factor of 3, the US would still be 13th (out of 34) on the OECD list, between Portugal and France.

[1] http://www.businessinsider.com/oecd-homicide-rates-chart-201... [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_S...

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