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HM Prison – A Survival Guide (2015)

prisonism.co.uk

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Re: HM Prison – A Survival Guide (2015)

#41

Post by Sir_Cmpwn »

hnaccy wrote: post #40
duozerk wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of people in prison are not dangerous (and, in my view at least, don't belong there), at least in the US.

>The vast majority of people in prison are not dangerous Why do you think this?

I found a source for inmate stats: https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_offen...

It's hard to precisely quantify the violent versus non-violent crimes, so I'll be making some assumptions in my summary based on some educated guesses about the kinds of crimes that land you in each category:

Non-violent: 70%

Violent: 30%

Re: HM Prison – A Survival Guide (2015)

#42

Post by MarkPNeyer »

gcb0 wrote: post #17
panic wrote: post #7

For more cheery prison reading, here's an article from a reporter who worked undercover as a guard at a private US prison: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/06/cca-private-pris... . IMO, the whole idea of prisons is inherently inhumane. We've really got to do better.

how to solve prisons in America: go full Liberal. states want private prisons. prisons should be to rehabilitate. so pay the prison business only if it delivers. i.e. pay private prisons on a rehabilitation rate instead of simply the number of inmates. it's not like you're expected to pay for damaged goods in a regular business transaction, so simply stop doing so with private prisons.

I've thought this for a long time. How do you actually make it happen, though?

If prisons had to refund the state when there was an instance of recidivism, they'd have an incentive to insure former prisoners were able to integrate back into society again.

Re: HM Prison – A Survival Guide (2015)

#43

Post by hluska »

Koshkin wrote: post #24
gcb0 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how to solve prisons in America: go full Liberal. states want private prisons. prisons should be to rehabilitate. so pay the prison business only if it delivers. i.e. pay private prisons on a rehabilitation rate instead of simply the number of inmates. it's not like you're expected to pay for damaged goods in a regular business transaction, so simply stop doing so with private prisons.

> prisons should be to rehabilitate What I personally appreciate the most is the simple fact of having dangerous people confined so that the danger to others (including myself) is no longer there.

I'm not sure where you're from and prison effectiveness tends to be dramatically different throughout the world. However, where I'm from, federal penitentiaries have a first year recidivism rate of over 40% (for non indigenous males) and nearly 60% (for indigenous males). In Canada, the provincial correctional system houses people sentenced to two years less a day, so federal penitentiaries tend to house more violent criminals.

I'll agree that it's nice having them off the streets, though I hate knowing that we release people knowing that on average, over 40% for reoffend within their first year.

Re: HM Prison – A Survival Guide (2015)

#44

Post by hnaccy »

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #41
hnaccy wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The vast majority of people in prison are not dangerous Why do you think this?

I found a source for inmate stats: https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_offen... It's hard to precisely quantify the violent versus non-violent crimes, so I'll be making some assumptions in my summary based on some educated guesses about the kinds of crimes that land you in each category: Non-violent: 70% Violent: 30%

That's only counting federal prisoners. When you include state prisoners you get

Violent: 47%

Property: 17%

Weapons: 5%

It's not obvious to me that the "vast majority" of prisoners are not dangerous.

Re: HM Prison – A Survival Guide (2015)

#45

Post by [deleted] »

throwawayxbe8 wrote: post #38
jackhack wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can say I would not want to live in a society that "accommodates" the needs of rapists, murderers, child molesters as well as the various petty criminals. Sin City was a dark film, I never found it a model for cultural structure.

What about one that accommodates people who possess marijuana? What about a society that accommodates people who have opioid addictions and need medical help? I think you have a rather skewed idea of the majority of our prison population. I'll give you a hint, though: most of them aren't rapists, murderers, and child molesters.

[deleted]

Re: HM Prison – A Survival Guide (2015)

#46

Post by cm2187 »

aleksei wrote: post #37
cm2187 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if don't have prison sentences, how do you prevent the next Madoff? Human nature is what it is, you just can't assume that all citizens are fundamentally good. There needs to be somehow a system of penalty/incentive to behaving well. It's not just about locking dangerous people away.

Prison sentences can't prevent the next Madoff, in the same way that they didn't prevent Madoff.

But it probably prevented hundred of Madoff wannabes...

Re: HM Prison – A Survival Guide (2015)

#47

Post by Sir_Cmpwn »

hnaccy wrote: post #44
Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found a source for inmate stats: https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_offen... It's hard to precisely quantify the violent versus non-violent crimes, so I'll be making some assumptions in my summary based on some educated guesses about the kinds of crimes that land you in each category: Non-violent: 70% Violent: 30%

That's only counting federal prisoners. When you include state prisoners you get Violent: 47% Property: 17% Weapons: 5% It's not obvious to me that the "vast majority" of prisoners are not dangerous.

I question the reliability of the metrics, especially at the state-level where records keeping, analysis, and justice procedures are disjoint. I would find it hard to believe that we have both the highest prisoners per capita and the highest violent people per capita.

Re: HM Prison – A Survival Guide (2015)

#48

Post by ghostbrainalpha »

throwawayxbe8 wrote: post #38
jackhack wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can say I would not want to live in a society that "accommodates" the needs of rapists, murderers, child molesters as well as the various petty criminals. Sin City was a dark film, I never found it a model for cultural structure.

What about one that accommodates people who possess marijuana? What about a society that accommodates people who have opioid addictions and need medical help? I think you have a rather skewed idea of the majority of our prison population. I'll give you a hint, though: most of them aren't rapists, murderers, and child molesters.

> I'll give you a hint, though: most of them aren't rapists, murderers, and child molesters.

HINT = 15% of the prison population in California are sex offenders.

Re: HM Prison – A Survival Guide (2015)

#49

Post by geofft »

cm2187 wrote: post #46
aleksei wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prison sentences can't prevent the next Madoff, in the same way that they didn't prevent Madoff.

But it probably prevented hundred of Madoff wannabes...

"Probably"? If we're going to deny people the most fundamental human rights, we need a bit more rational reasoning than "probably".

Re: HM Prison – A Survival Guide (2015)

#50

Post by whathaschanged »

throwawayxbe8 wrote: post #38
jackhack wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can say I would not want to live in a society that "accommodates" the needs of rapists, murderers, child molesters as well as the various petty criminals. Sin City was a dark film, I never found it a model for cultural structure.

What about one that accommodates people who possess marijuana? What about a society that accommodates people who have opioid addictions and need medical help? I think you have a rather skewed idea of the majority of our prison population. I'll give you a hint, though: most of them aren't rapists, murderers, and child molesters.

We got Al Capone for tax evasion. Sometimes the laws you see as unjust are there for a reason. In California, for instance, a DUI has a part A and B so if they drop one part you always get convicted of the other.
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