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HM Prison – A Survival Guide (2015)

prisonism.co.uk

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Re: HM Prison – A Survival Guide (2015)

#31

Post by jackhack »

keiferski wrote: post #9
panic wrote: post #7

For more cheery prison reading, here's an article from a reporter who worked undercover as a guard at a private US prison: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/06/cca-private-pris... . IMO, the whole idea of prisons is inherently inhumane. We've really got to do better.

I've always held to the "Sin City"[1] philosophy: society's needs change over time, while people fundamentally don't. The existence of prison is just a failure of society to accommodate the wide variety of human natures. Obviously this brings up questions of the "dangerous to society" variety, but a minuscule percentage of prisoners are dangerous psycho killers. [1] Most people think Marv is crazy, but I don't believ…

I can say I would not want to live in a society that "accommodates" the needs of rapists, murderers, child molesters as well as the various petty criminals.

Sin City was a dark film, I never found it a model for cultural structure.

Re: HM Prison – A Survival Guide (2015)

#32

Post by celticninja »

janekm wrote: post #22
jmnicolas wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

330 millions copies ? Let's say for the thought experiment that it was sold only on the European continent (including Russia), it would mean that one in two people living in Europe bought a copy. I find it hard to believe !

He’s written quite a bit more than one book (over 25). Sales are >250 million according to his website. His books are practically their own genre in the UK, if second hand shops are anything to go by.

He also said he raised £52 million for Iraqi Kurds a figure that KPMG said was bullshit. So I would not put too much faith in anything that he says.

Re: HM Prison – A Survival Guide (2015)

#33

Post by Joeboy »

alex_hitchins wrote: post #13
celticninja wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Find a torrent of the book if you really want to read it don't go giving Archer any money.

If you like UK slang, look up what 'An Archer' is. Still hear this used today and it never fails to make me smile.

I think this might actually be hard to google.

An archer is £2000, the amount Conservative Party deputy chairman Jeffrey Archer was caught paying a prostitute to keep quiet about his allegedly being a client of hers.

I first heard this usage on The New Statesman (the Rick Mayall TV comedy), but it may have originated elsewhere.

Re: HM Prison – A Survival Guide (2015)

#34

Post by cm2187 »

keiferski wrote: post #9
panic wrote: post #7

For more cheery prison reading, here's an article from a reporter who worked undercover as a guard at a private US prison: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/06/cca-private-pris... . IMO, the whole idea of prisons is inherently inhumane. We've really got to do better.

I've always held to the "Sin City"[1] philosophy: society's needs change over time, while people fundamentally don't. The existence of prison is just a failure of society to accommodate the wide variety of human natures. Obviously this brings up questions of the "dangerous to society" variety, but a minuscule percentage of prisoners are dangerous psycho killers. [1] Most people think Marv is crazy, but I don't believ…

But if don't have prison sentences, how do you prevent the next Madoff? Human nature is what it is, you just can't assume that all citizens are fundamentally good. There needs to be somehow a system of penalty/incentive to behaving well. It's not just about locking dangerous people away.

Re: HM Prison – A Survival Guide (2015)

#35

Post by smcl »

duozerk wrote: post #27
Koshkin wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> prisons should be to rehabilitate What I personally appreciate the most is the simple fact of having dangerous people confined so that the danger to others (including myself) is no longer there.

The vast majority of people in prison are not dangerous (and, in my view at least, don't belong there), at least in the US.

You are completely correct. I'd also add that even if we assume everyone IS dangerous, would you really want to lock them away for 5, 10, 15 years without any thought as to what sort of human they'd be after that? My personal opinion is that we should treat these people humanely and with sympathy, but if GP is taking an extreme self-centered approach then why not consider the possibility that the system is creating people who are more dangerous to them in the long run?

Re: HM Prison – A Survival Guide (2015)

#36

Post by t90fan »

alkonaut wrote: post #25
alex_hitchins wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can bring some items, but you couldn't bring a telly etc. There was talk a while back about banning books being sent to prisioners, not sure what logic was used for that one. I haven't been to prison in the UK or the US however what I've seen of both, the US system seems straight up about making money over anything else. I'd hope the UK system isn't this way although I fear it likely is going that way.

This manual indicates the UK prison system is much more like the US system than I expected. e.g. shared prison cells.

thats more an artefact of the fact that most of our prisons were built in the 1800s.

2 in a cell is common.

Until the 90s they never had indoor plumbing either, only buckets in the cells. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slopping_out

Re: HM Prison – A Survival Guide (2015)

#37

Post by aleksei »

cm2187 wrote: post #34
keiferski wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always held to the "Sin City"[1] philosophy: society's needs change over time, while people fundamentally don't. The existence of prison is just a failure of society to accommodate the wide variety of human natures. Obviously this brings up questions of the "dangerous to society" variety, but a minuscule percentage of prisoners are dangerous psycho killers. [1] Most people think Marv is crazy, but I don't believ…

But if don't have prison sentences, how do you prevent the next Madoff? Human nature is what it is, you just can't assume that all citizens are fundamentally good. There needs to be somehow a system of penalty/incentive to behaving well. It's not just about locking dangerous people away.

Prison sentences can't prevent the next Madoff, in the same way that they didn't prevent Madoff.

Re: HM Prison – A Survival Guide (2015)

#38

Post by throwawayxbe8 »

jackhack wrote: post #31
keiferski wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always held to the "Sin City"[1] philosophy: society's needs change over time, while people fundamentally don't. The existence of prison is just a failure of society to accommodate the wide variety of human natures. Obviously this brings up questions of the "dangerous to society" variety, but a minuscule percentage of prisoners are dangerous psycho killers. [1] Most people think Marv is crazy, but I don't believ…

I can say I would not want to live in a society that "accommodates" the needs of rapists, murderers, child molesters as well as the various petty criminals. Sin City was a dark film, I never found it a model for cultural structure.

What about one that accommodates people who possess marijuana? What about a society that accommodates people who have opioid addictions and need medical help? I think you have a rather skewed idea of the majority of our prison population. I'll give you a hint, though: most of them aren't rapists, murderers, and child molesters.

Re: HM Prison – A Survival Guide (2015)

#39

Post by alex_hitchins »

t90fan wrote: post #36
alkonaut wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This manual indicates the UK prison system is much more like the US system than I expected. e.g. shared prison cells.

thats more an artefact of the fact that most of our prisons were built in the 1800s. 2 in a cell is common. Until the 90s they never had indoor plumbing either, only buckets in the cells. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slopping_out

The following article is worth a read too on the subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_Strangeways_Prison_riot

I believe it was the squalid conditions that sparked the unrest.

Re: HM Prison – A Survival Guide (2015)

#40

Post by hnaccy »

duozerk wrote: post #27
Koshkin wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> prisons should be to rehabilitate What I personally appreciate the most is the simple fact of having dangerous people confined so that the danger to others (including myself) is no longer there.

The vast majority of people in prison are not dangerous (and, in my view at least, don't belong there), at least in the US.

>The vast majority of people in prison are not dangerous

Why do you think this?

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