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Why Happy People Cheat

theatlantic.com

111–120 of 138 posts

Re: Why Happy People Cheat

#111
post #39

So affairs are 'wrong', but who would want to live in a world where there are no affairs? We excessively police and punish our partners, our friends' partners and our parents, but often hypocritically, when it comes to ourselves and our friends cheating will generally be forgiven. I am not even advocating abolishing the hypocricy. Without it affairs probably wouldn't be exciting and equally, faithful relationships wo…

Yeah, that's crap. Let's translate that philosophy to other "wrong" activities, shall we? "Spending money is more exciting when it's stolen. Saving is much more meaningful if there is the possibility that someone can steal it." "Life is more meaningful when someone is actively trying to kill you. Murder is much less exciting because it's wrong." You see the problem? The notion that actively doing something awful to s…

Yes, but I am speaking as someone who did just break up with someone. Amazing how noone can actually read that part and just jumps to long ranty insults. Confirmation bias is going to be especially common if you delete words when as you read. (I assume you are addressing me when you say 'you' this and 'you' that).

The reality of my case is (well it's a complicated story) that it may well have gone better for them psychologically if there was a clear betrayal on my part. Maybe mine is an extreme case, and in anycase knowing what I know wouldn't have made me cheat - I would rather be in the right - but then again it's easy to say that ...

Everyone seems to be taking such an absolute position. Which is ridiculous really since it really is culturally relative e.g. in france they are much more permissive of affairs - with certain thrown in social conditions about being discreet - and again it is not to say they are saying it is right - neither am I, just that it is not such a huge bad to deserve all the vitriol - like I'm getting for even discussing the matter.

What is clear is I would never make promises to people with such puritanical attitudes like yours. Clearly it would be a one sided contract since I would be much more forgiving and less entitled and on top of that given the way of hypocricy quite possibly less likely to cheat. Again, if I may argue by analogy, like the anti-gay politicians who are gay, I wonder wether the people who are so anti-affair are infact liable to do so or have done so themselves.

Of course there can be tyranny in a voluntary relationship, because you cannot predict the future and you can be bound (by e.g. caring more about the children, or social pressure) to suffer.

Some people are fools when it comes to relationships. They may know there partner cheated in the past, they may know they have generally sexually permissive attitude and are unreliable with their promises. Yet the outrage is still there nonetheless. You cannot make something into something it is not. I may as well get outraged if my partner doesn't become a millionairre or doesn't look like a supermodel after a certain age.

And just because you can make analogies, doesn't make it right. Somethings are better (for some people) with some danger of a bad outcome. e.g. Extreme sports. Yes, I just don't think you can equate murder or theft to having an affair. Both are actions against a stranger. Now if one partner misspends a large sum of shared money then that is an ambiguous situation which is worth comparing.

Re: Why Happy People Cheat

#112
post #31

Just be polyamorous (see e.g. https://polyfidelity.org.au/about/polyamory/education/121-th... , http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/06/polyamory-is-boring/ ). If there is a need to have multiple partners instead of going the "traditional way" (one official partner + cheating or some shady don't ask don't tell arrangement) it seems much healthier to openly discuss needs and boundaries. We shouldn't just accept "system d…

You... didn't read the article, did you?

It goes on at length about why affairs aren't just about wanting another partner.

It even mentions (briefly) affairs in the context of open marriages.

Re: Why Happy People Cheat

#113
post #31

Just be polyamorous (see e.g. https://polyfidelity.org.au/about/polyamory/education/121-th... , http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/06/polyamory-is-boring/ ). If there is a need to have multiple partners instead of going the "traditional way" (one official partner + cheating or some shady don't ask don't tell arrangement) it seems much healthier to openly discuss needs and boundaries. We shouldn't just accept "system d…

You... didn't read the article, did you? It goes on at length about why affairs aren't just about wanting another partner. It even mentions (briefly) affairs in the context of open marriages.

[deleted]

Re: Why Happy People Cheat

#114
post #40

It's simple. Some people value an exciting encounter over their current relationship, people can have an addiction to the rush or have felt numb for too long. Over simplifying - there's nothing wrong with their current phone but some people will rush and buy the latest to get the buzz of a new gadget. They weigh the chance of getting caught and damage it will cause as lower than the excitement and fulfilment of a new…

I just want to give a name to this for whoever want to Google more: novelty seeking.

I think it's part of how we're wired. Some people more than others. To seek that dopamine hit again.

Re: Why Happy People Cheat

#115
Feminism. Feminism causes this. Let me explain...

simply, Evolutionary biology suggests women are hard wired to seek certain behaviors And characteristics in a man.

Behaviors that suggest the man has many high quality female options; and characteristics that are Fundamentally manly, (like dominating in bed)

feminists have changed culture to suggest that these characteristics are a bad thing. And most men are blindly following the feminist narrative.

Hence you get women choosing the "safe" option but dreaming about the guy that will tell them "no".

Read "The Rational Male" . Great book.

Re: Why Happy People Cheat

#116
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> So you really believe that physical coercion to marry high-status males is caused by (i.e., is an "outcome" of) the practice of polygamy? No, I believe that when we look at historical or contemporary examples of societies or sub-cultures in which polygamy is practised, we tend to see forced marriages. I'm not saying either is the cause of the other, but that they are associated, and I agree very much that they bot…

> I agree very much that they both take place in highly patriarchal societies. Then why are we arguing? > what your issue is with people choosing monogamy I have no such issue? You are putting words in my mouth. Perhaps this is why we are arguing. All I take issue with is the GP's assertion that polygamy is the cause of the "lost boys" problem. I claim it's not, patriarchy promulgated by high-status males is. Remove…

>> Then why are we arguing?

I'm not really sure.

>> All I take issue with is the GP's assertion that polygamy is the cause of the "lost boys" problem. I claim it's not, patriarchy promulgated by high-status males is.

I'd say it's an intermediate cause, or even an immediate cause and the patriarchy is at the root of it in all examples that we have to look at. If, somehow, consensual polygyny became the norm then we could end up with some of the same societal problems re: pools of unmarried/unattached men.

>> Remove patriarchy and polygamy is no longer problematic.

Well sure, no longer problematic in as much as no longer forcing people to marry others, but it may still cause societal problems. I'm not advocating it be outlawed for those reasons, FYI, just looking at possibilities. I do think it's fairly unlikely that widespread polygamy would happen outside of the patriarchal constraints, and certainly I'm not sure I know of any examples of polygamous societies having existed without such.

Polyamory is a different beast entirely of course.

Re: Why Happy People Cheat

#117
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I don't think the normalization of this obviously selfish and destructive behavior is a positive thing at all.

The selfishness and destructiveness of the behaviour is very closely related to the norms it violates. Homosexuality was (and is) destructive to families in communities where it considered abhorent. Premarital sex too. In fact, the ban on premarital sex and the ban aon adultery are closely related. People have a hard time suppressing their sexual urges. But, many sexual urges we once considered immoral & destructive…

[deleted]

Re: Why Happy People Cheat

#118

> there is always a suspicion … that one is living a lie or a mistake; that something crucially important has been overlooked, missed, neglected, left untried and unexplored; that a vital obligation to one’s own authentic self has not been met, or that some chances of unknown happiness completely different from any happiness experienced before have not been taken up in time and are bound to be lost forever. In my opi…

I tend to agree, but I think it's pretty deeply rooted, and it's not a new thing by any stretch. I reject the idea that this is somehow a particularly modern dysfunction.

As children and young adults people are taught to "pursue their dreams" and "find their passion" and many other aspirational platitudes.

Then, adult life comes along and most of us become decidedly average because, well, that's statistics for you.

But many are then left with this feeling that they've somehow failed. That if they'd taken that other road that diverged in that wood a ways back, maybe they'd be living that fantasy life that they were sold.

What we're not taught is how to be happy in the present. Aspiring to change is vital to improve ourselves and the world around us. But equally valuing and appreciating what we already have is every bit as important.

Re: Why Happy People Cheat

#119

The reason it's ostensibly confusing is that the standard narrative of human sexuality—one sexual partner for life after getting married—is, forgive me, completely batshit insane. That's not to say that people haven't done it. People do, of course. And that's not to say that that's wrong or something, either. But the expectation of total 'fidelity' for life is unreasonable. For more on this subject I recommend the bo…

Well if you think so you have to admit it is dishonest to promise otherwise.

Yes, that is the problem—people not admitting it to themselves or their partners—and (I believe) it is the standard narrative of monosexuality that forces people to not make that admission.

Re: Why Happy People Cheat

#120
post #9

The reason it's ostensibly confusing is that the standard narrative of human sexuality—one sexual partner for life after getting married—is, forgive me, completely batshit insane. That's not to say that people haven't done it. People do, of course. And that's not to say that that's wrong or something, either. But the expectation of total 'fidelity' for life is unreasonable. For more on this subject I recommend the bo…

Having only read the 'reception' part of the wiki article, especially about 'Sex at Dawn' 's allegedly sloppy methodology.. do you happen to know of any book(s) with similarly 'non-standard' views of human sexuality, but which are considered (more widely) to be argued for using a strongly rigorous methodology?

I don't, though I imagine they must be out there—I'd love to find them.
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