Live data from Hacker News

At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

bloomberg.com

291–300 of 418 posts

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#292

I grew up in Texas but worked in Silicon Valley for a few years. One of the toughest adjustments was going from a small conservative town to a major liberal populace. It was astonishing the number of people who got angry _at me_ for having a different opinion then they did. At one workplace I saw two coworkers get into a fist fight because the liberal was "offended" that the conservative differed on a viewpoint. Go t…

What does conservative mean? Some people say that conservatism includes things like gun rights, support for anti-immigration and lower taxes. As well as Christian values, which for a decade or two, has meant something around abortion, homosexuals, and recently transgenders. What are these viewpoints that are claimed to be conservative in nature? I have read the Texas GOP platform. Is that representative of conservati…

> What does conservative mean?

This is a fair question at this point. I would posit answering this and also answering "What does liberal mean?" would be great things to address in high school political science classrooms, however it doesn't seem to be in the curriculum. We've had the better part of 30 years where media pundits have been doing their best to conflate these terms with concepts which are tangential at best or completely unrelated at worst.

First, I think it's important to understand that concepts like "conservative" and "liberal" refer to overarching political philosophies, and the actual ideology a person holds that describes themselves as such is probably a subset. Since we're focused on conservatism, I'll provide examples from there. So, in this case there may be broad differences in beliefs about particular political issues between an evangelical conservative Republican and a Libertarian, however both are conservatives. This type of difference arises with the concept of liberalism as well. Fundamentally, the liberal/conservative distinction is a line, and therefore each person falls at some point on that line within a broad spectrum.

Second, let's address the most simplistic explanation of the overarching philosophy, and then we'll get into some specifics of how this might manifest when applied to an individual. Conservatism is effectively a combination of three ideas:

1. Individuals know best about their own situations and working together can improve things better than a central authority (i.e. "government sucks at doing things" 2. Broad social and political change should be infrequent and considered fully, and therefore an adhesion to our founding charter (Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution) is critical to correct governance (i.e. "we've done it this way and it's worked out so far, why change?") 3. In order to ensure that both of the above are true it's essential to have a small central government which is only empowered and funded minimally at the bare necessity to achieve those general aims (i.e. "the best government is a small government")

Third, it's important to understand how much upbringing and experiences in life affect an individual's political ideology and the philosophy from which it is derived. It is no mistake or surprise that cities tend to be more liberal and rural locations tend to be more conservative in the United States. It's a result of somewhat unintended consequences of democracy conceptually and the realities of optimizing for bureaucratic efficiency. We know that basic rules of optimization (the Pareto principle) says that 80% of the job requires 20% of the work. This is true of many things when it comes to urban/rural divides, all the way down to broadband Internet connectivity. Democracy in its simplest form becomes rule by the majority, so larger concentrations of people (cities) hold more sway.

These two items result in people inhabiting rural areas being felt that not only do they not have a voice but that nobody cares to help them with their problems. The response to this is "clinging to traditions" because those traditions are by and large what has helped get them and their families through hard times for many years. In a fit of irony, the more underfunded the government the more heavily the government focuses on cities as that becomes the most rational pathway.

Finally, conservatism is rooted in two additional beliefs that are about the conduct of a person individually. That is, that generally everyone should be treated as an individual rather than via group identity (individualism as a loose philosophical base) and that because of this personal responsibility and hard work are the most important factors in success. This is one reason why people with conservative beliefs are less likely to approve of social safety nets, even though they would likely qualify as beneficiaries. The philosophy includes a belief structure of the self that would refuse the help out of shame at personal failure, and at the same time would judge others as failing for taking that help. In this mindset all that matters is taking responsibility for your self, including the outcome/reaction to a bad situation, and working hard to better things.

I've touched briefly on a lot of different things, and I've provided basically no sources for these statements. I'd like to write something much more thorough, but the reality is it'd be entirely too lengthy and I should be doing work right now. The topic is very complex, political ideologies themselves are complex, and this is one reason why I find it distasteful when someone is painted in broad strokes because of their political ideology (regardless of what that ideology is). Hopefully this comment is helpful to the discussion though.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#293

>>“Work is work, and not everything needs to be about politics,” he said. While he sees liberal colleagues who sit nearby don’t seemingly need to filter their comments, he’s decided it’s not worth engaging, adding “I don’t want to be known as that guy who wants to argue with everybody.” As someone who falls on the Liberal side of the spectrum, this bothers me more than almost anything else regarding modern day politi…

The liberal echo chamber is a problem, but I don't think it's anywhere near the scale of problem as things like climate change, healthcare, consumer protection rollbacks, voter suppression, mass incarceration and deportation. These issues are more important than whether someone feels comfortable wearing a MAGA hat at Google.

Politics isn't baseball. The stakes are real, more so for some than for others. If you want to express a political view at work then the people to whom you are expressing it have a right to dislike you for it.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#294
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I moved to San Francisco from a small, deeply red town. I'll just say this - I think even that small town would be more tolerant of liberals than I felt when I worked in San Francisco, and I'm not even really that conservative (just economically). The leadership at the company was very reasonable, but the politically active folks terrified me, and didn't just think that those that held conservative viewpoints were mi…

> I'll just say this - I think even that small town would be more tolerant of liberals than I felt when I worked in San Francisco, and I'm not even really that conservative (just economically). As a liberal atheist who has spent most of his life in the deep red parts of the south, I can assure you that you're wrong.

Your personal anecdotes don't prove OP's anecdotes wrong. I can re-assure you of OP's view with my own personal anecdotes, but I wouldn't go as far as to say you are "wrong".

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I moved to San Francisco from a small, deeply red town. I'll just say this - I think even that small town would be more tolerant of liberals than I felt when I worked in San Francisco, and I'm not even really that conservative (just economically). The leadership at the company was very reasonable, but the politically active folks terrified me, and didn't just think that those that held conservative viewpoints were mi…

In my opinion, some of the policies of the Republican Party seem downright evil to me. Restrict the civil rights of gays and Muslims (Trump himself stated that he was going to start a Muslim ban, he asked people to make it legal but the intent was very clear and stated by Trump several times: Muslim ban). They also want to restrict information on the internet which seems pretty evil to me (modern day book banning). T…

Let's rewind a bit of history and look back to what the Democratic Party did to civil rights and a race for the next 100+ years after a bold Republican emancipated the slaves. People everywhere can do horrible, horrible things. Read your history books, and try hard to prevent history from repeating itself.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#296
post #154

What I find strange and what keeps getting repeated in this thread is that if you don't agree on certain points of currently popular liberal trends, you are automatically being called "conservative" or even worse (bigot, racist, sexist etc. - you name it). I call myself liberal (I agree that all people are equal and nobody should tell how anybody lives, as long as it doesn't harm others), but I don't agree with some…

> What I find strange and what keeps getting repeated in this thread is that if you don't agree on certain points of currently popular liberal trends, you are automatically being called "conservative" or even worse (bigot, racist, sexist etc. - you name it).

I think the adherents of those views are currently enthralled by the power they gain from shunning and social ostracism.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#297
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, he looks at it like left and right. From a European perspective American politics are simple: Republicans: extreme right (slight adjustment: closed borders, mostly for laissez-faire economic reasons) Democrats: extreme right (slight adjustment: (ever so slightly more) open borders, mostly for laissez-faire economic reasons) Libertarians: extreme right Even the bloody US communist party does not want to abolish ma…

That's an interesting perspective. I know the left/right spectrum has many definitions, and there is little consensus on them, but I think this captures the essential philosophical and ideological distinctions: http://www.pocatelloshops.com/new_blogs/politics/wp-content/... So by my measure, both Republicans and Democrats are in the middle leaning left - both supporting various forms of rights violations. Libertarian…

That is an absurdly incorrect definition of left/right wing. The original use of left and right wings was that the right wing supported the French monarchy while the left wing opposed it, but under your definition supporters of an absolute monarchy would be far left.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See also: Brendan Eich, who was booted from his job at Mozilla because someone went digging to find his personal voting record and found something they didn't like.

What happened to Eich is another issue entirely. The article is about people getting into political arguments with their co-workers and then getting upset when those co-workers don't want to be their friend anymore.

Yes, but this thread is about people being "punished" by large groups for voting differently from those groups (and how difficult it is to "keep your politics at home" when those groups go to your "home" to track down your politics and decide whether to "punish" you)

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#299
post #293

>>“Work is work, and not everything needs to be about politics,” he said. While he sees liberal colleagues who sit nearby don’t seemingly need to filter their comments, he’s decided it’s not worth engaging, adding “I don’t want to be known as that guy who wants to argue with everybody.” As someone who falls on the Liberal side of the spectrum, this bothers me more than almost anything else regarding modern day politi…

The liberal echo chamber is a problem, but I don't think it's anywhere near the scale of problem as things like climate change, healthcare, consumer protection rollbacks, voter suppression, mass incarceration and deportation. These issues are more important than whether someone feels comfortable wearing a MAGA hat at Google. Politics isn't baseball. The stakes are real, more so for some than for others. If you want t…

> If you want to express a political view at work then the people to whom you are expressing it have a right to dislike you for it.

Do those people have a right to take action to negatively impact your career/livelihood/ability-to-provide-for-your-family because of your political views?

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#300
post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might be misunderstanding your comment, but I'm curious to hear more about why you have felt that Buddhist monks have been communicated as being "directly opposite" to Christian clergy? Having studied and adopted practices from both traditions, this statement doesn't seem to accurately reflect core values from either of them. (I understand that "Christian" and "Buddhist" are very broad categories, and that there ar…

Christianity is an "exclusive" religion: "Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:16). It is a core doctrine of Christianity that there is exactly one path to righteousness, which is through acknowledgement of personal sin and personal inability to pay the penalty for said sin, acceptance of the payment offered by Jesus Christ as the only…

> Christianity is an "exclusive" religion

To the extent that this is true generally of Christians (even by the narrow definition as those groups holding to the doctrines espoused in the Apostle's and Nicene Creeds, which excludes many groups that describe themself as Christian) it is arguaby only trivially true. While there are certainly Christians who hold to a narrow view of exclusivity where only that which is within the visible bounds of the Christian Church can be holy and only those people within it's visible bounds may be saved, many (and the official doctrine of the largest organized Christian group) do not.

Post reply on HN