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At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

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Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#111

Post by classybull »

api wrote: post #73
chrisabrams wrote: post #2

I grew up in Texas but worked in Silicon Valley for a few years. One of the toughest adjustments was going from a small conservative town to a major liberal populace. It was astonishing the number of people who got angry _at me_ for having a different opinion then they did. At one workplace I saw two coworkers get into a fist fight because the liberal was "offended" that the conservative differed on a viewpoint. Go t…

I was going to ask: what happens in small town Texas if you are an atheist, don't support the war, support a woman's right to have an abortion, etc.? It's been my experience that each region has its dominant sociopolitical culture and that there are always people who are unable to see beyond that and who become angry when confronted by anything other.

I grew up in small(ish) town Texas with those exact viewpoints. I wouldn't say that my viewpoint was exactly ostracized, but it was definitely "odd" and Other. I never really suffered any physical intimidation for my viewpoints, but that's probably because I'm a giant ogre that people tend not to feel like they can mess with. But I did have my fair share of heated arguments when refusing to pray before a football game or counter-protest the abortion protestors, etc.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#112

Post by jzymbaluk »

> an employee who describes himself as libertarian [...] believes the now infamous memo was relatively well-reasoned and that Silicon Valley's diversity initiatives ignore data that conflict with their ideology. He’s regularly reminded of what he refers to as the company’s “social justice agenda,” like when he gets corporate email touting a donation to a non-profit that supports minorities, or hears an executive talk about hoping to have half of his leadership team be female,which he believes shows the company prioritizes some groups over others.

This makes zero sense to me. A private company having a corporate agenda and goals and using its power in the industry to enact social change sounds like something even Ayn Rand would be okay with. Libertarianism is supposed to champion the values of private property, political liberty and free association. This guy should realize he's working for a company with owners, and that under his own ideology, owners have every right to push whatever political agenda they want, and that if he has a problem with his company taking a stand on social justice, then that's fine, he should work somewhere else.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#113

Post by peoplewindow »

MBCook wrote: post #65
jimbokun wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And here is a sterling example of the level of political discourse to which we have sunk. The post you reply to doesn't even list any specific political opinions, yet you already insinuate this person is a racist bigot. Well done.

GP is not insinuating that person is a racist, they're pointing out that some 'political' views are really hard to be civil about. For exactly that reason they stir up very strong feelings. I've seen strong feeling (but relatively civil discussion) about topics like handling North Korea or immigration. Things like taxes tend to be far more civil as GP pointed out. There was absolutely no need to call GP a bigot.

They really don't tend to be more civil. The only reason it may seem like that in America is that the USA has never really attempted to cut its deficit.

Go look at political conversation in the UK and you'll find large numbers of left wingers / liberals foaming at the mouth about how the government trying to balance its budget is the same thing as hating people, killing them, that austerity is unthinkable evil, that any solution which isn't vast taxes on the rich is evidence of a defective moral compass, etc.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#114

Post by [deleted] »

sharemywin wrote: post #79
chrisabrams wrote: post #2

I grew up in Texas but worked in Silicon Valley for a few years. One of the toughest adjustments was going from a small conservative town to a major liberal populace. It was astonishing the number of people who got angry _at me_ for having a different opinion then they did. At one workplace I saw two coworkers get into a fist fight because the liberal was "offended" that the conservative differed on a viewpoint. Go t…

Funny, wonder how many moderate liberals would beg to have him back as president now. Myself included.

[deleted]

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#115

Post by corpMaverick »

Frondo wrote: post #49

My heart goes out to those lonely people. I think, though, the reality is that politics (and concomitant voting choices) has consequences on the lives of others, and this pattern of some social isolation is in turn a consequence of that. It isn't Star Wars vs Star Trek, it's whether Jim the SRE can marry his long-term boyfriend Mike, or whatever. It's not just politics. It never is. Votes make a difference in people'…

But we should probably leave some of the wedge social issues to Hollywood. They are masters at it. (e.g. Will and Grace)

I would like to see the Democratic party focus on issues like workers rights, fighting white and black poverty, healthcare, etc.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#116

Post by gizmo »

ams6110 wrote: post #59
AndrewDucker wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A vote to treat people badly is _absolutely_ a good reason to be angry at someone. If you're voting to take away people's healthcare, or to discriminate against them based on who they love, or their gender, then of course they are angry!

Still no excuse for physical violence. Votes are how we make decisions in our society. You don't always win. You can argue your position all you want, but you don't get to intimidate others with violence.

Taking away people's healthcare is violence though.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#117

Post by ams6110 »

zimpenfish wrote: post #53
nxsynonym wrote: post #19

>>“Work is work, and not everything needs to be about politics,” he said. While he sees liberal colleagues who sit nearby don’t seemingly need to filter their comments, he’s decided it’s not worth engaging, adding “I don’t want to be known as that guy who wants to argue with everybody.” As someone who falls on the Liberal side of the spectrum, this bothers me more than almost anything else regarding modern day politi…

> If you mention you are a conservative or hold conservative views, [many of which involve punitive action against the least well off / most marginalised in society] > you are aligned with the worst of the worst and anything you say is inherently wrong. Amazing, really, that people think less of you when you specifically say you think less of others (which is the core conservative stance.)

I'm conservative, I do not think less of anyone else as a human being (I may well think less of their opinions, actions, or behaviors, but that's not at all the same thing).

Your viewpoint that "thinking less of others" is a "core" conservative value very much implies that you don't really know any conservatives, and are just parroting the party line from within your bubble.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#118

Post by [deleted] »

classybull wrote: post #8

Aren't these the same sort that will moan ceaselessly about the ludicrousness of "safe spaces" and "snowflakes"? I don't particularly care. You're free to speak your mind. You're not free to force people around you agree. Either get over it, or move on. I hear welding is an in-demand industry and I bet they'll find more receptivity to their viewpoints there.

[deleted]

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#119

Post by kurthr »

subru wrote: post #16
brookside wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That anger could be reasonable or not, depending on your opinions.

No, it's not reasonable. It's a vote, not justification to throw fists or anything in between, even.

"I think your kind is an abomination that should be hearded into camps and slaughtered", is a political opinion that might well lead to a fight or 'anything in between'. It has little to do with a vote. Some 'conservative' people now believe it's ok to voice those opponions at work. We don't know what was said based on the parent, and we don't know how it escalated... so maybe that's it?

Some people won't be cowed by a publicly aggressive racist... I'd tell my boss that I'm uncomfortable working with them. I'm not a snowflake, if someone else can't handle my speach and the resulting consequences of their own.

Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated

#120

Post by azey47 »

candiodari wrote: post #44
LyndsySimon wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> than the golden calves US libertarian society has set up is shunned This doesn't make any sense to me - as an (extreme) libertarian, I see very little progress on that front. The Democrats and Republicans have each used the libertarian "brand" when it has suited them, but neither have implemented any actual libertarian positions in my lifetime, at least not that I can recall. Out of curiosity, are you perhaps viewi…

No, he looks at it like left and right. From a European perspective American politics are simple: Republicans: extreme right (slight adjustment: closed borders, mostly for laissez-faire economic reasons) Democrats: extreme right (slight adjustment: (ever so slightly more) open borders, mostly for laissez-faire economic reasons) Libertarians: extreme right Even the bloody US communist party does not want to abolish ma…

That's an interesting perspective.

I know the left/right spectrum has many definitions, and there is little consensus on them, but I think this captures the essential philosophical and ideological distinctions: http://www.pocatelloshops.com/new_blogs/politics/wp-content/...

So by my measure, both Republicans and Democrats are in the middle leaning left - both supporting various forms of rights violations. Libertarians are further right, advocating a lot of good rights-protecting policies, but often for the wrong reasons - so they're not consistent in the policies they promote.

Also, "closed borders, mostly for laissez-faire economic reasons" doesn't really make sense, as that's an explicitly anti-laissez-fare policy (if you understand laissez-fare as "abstention by governments from interfering in the workings of the free market.", as it's most commonly meant).

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