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Reddit is still in turmoil

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Re: Reddit is still in turmoil

#81

I think much of Reddit's problems with its userbase boil down to an early failure to manage expectations. It's pretty clear that the Reddit corporation doesn't want Reddit to be an anything-goes, absolute free speech zone with no moderation or anti-harassment policies -- but that's what the site actually was for many years. Now, when the company cracks down, users think their freedoms are being curtailed. The mistake…

> Compounding that problem, the fact that the site was unregulated for so long caused it to attract the kind of people who need to be regulated the most. Is there any evidence that reddit has a greater fraction of asshats than the general population at large?

It doesn't need to, because the general population is already overflowing with asshats. Keeping a forum civil is a matter of keeping the local asshat population artificially low, not preventing it from growing artificially high.

Re: Reddit is still in turmoil

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Compounding that problem, the fact that the site was unregulated for so long caused it to attract the kind of people who need to be regulated the most. Is there any evidence that reddit has a greater fraction of asshats than the general population at large?

The issue isn't really the amount of asshats. In the physical world, it's generally really unlikely that you'll get more than a couple of particularly egregious asshats with similar beliefs in the same place. When you do, it's often a news story. Online, just as people with good intentions can find each other, people with bad ones can find each other and band together. In other words, the unmoderated Internet is an a…

> Online, just as people with good intentions can find each other, people with bad ones can find each other and band together.

Yup. Besides egregious asshats, it has greatly helped conspiracy theorists to get together, fringe religious groups to get together, and fringe political groups to get together.

> In other words, the unmoderated Internet is an amplification device for small groups of people who might otherwise not get a voice, and it doesn't actually matter what they're saying.

I think that the amplification effect does vary, though, among different groups. Some groups already had worked out good ways to communicate before the internet, and to spread information. It wasn't as fast or as convenient as the internet, so things were slower than they are now, but it got the job done.

An example of such a group would be those in STEM fields. We had big libraries of technical material extensively cataloged and indexed and cross referenced, an extensive system of mailed bulletins and journals to keep us informed of new developments in our fields. We had telephones for long distance real time person to person discussion, and the postal system for less urgent communication or for sending documents and photographs.

The internet was a huge increase in the access to and speed of sending information for STEM people, but in some sense it was just a change in efficiency, not a fundamental change in what we could accomplish. I've compared it before to the printing press. We had books before the printing press, but it took a long time to make copies and they were expensive. The printing press made it faster and cheaper to make copies.

For those groups that were not organized like this, which includes the random asshats, the conspiracy theorists, and so on, the internet was a fundamental change. For them it like the discovery of fire or the development of agriculture. It put them in a whole new world.

Re: Reddit is still in turmoil

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't imagine a situation where someone has beliefs that do not affect his actions in any way. I would agree that unexpressed values would propagate less.

> I can't imagine a situation where someone has beliefs that do not affect his actions in any way. That was an extreme example used to illustrate the point I was making. Racism is also only an example; there are plenty of other beliefs that are bad for society. Personally, I suspect that sexism is probably far more prevalent on Reddit than racism, for example. Social stigma can prevent one's beliefs from affecting on…

Well said.

I do not agree with giving up on freedom of speech because some people will say hurtful things. Every time I have read racism or seen racists on TV it has merely exposed how ill-informed, counter-productive and just plain wrong those ideas are, and has prompted myself and others to dispute those wrong ideas. There is also the slim chance that if the dummies are called out on their wrong ideas, they may end up changing them.

Anonymous freedom of speech is a slightly different case, but I still feel that all freedom of speech is valuable and needs to be preserved.

Re: Reddit is still in turmoil

#84
post #75
post #39

Why the hell is Reddit trying to make their own content when the entire point of the site is for the users to create the content? Don't make a Reddit podcast, make Reddit a podcast hosting network. Don't make a Reddit video show, make Reddit a video hosting site. Don't make a Reddit magazine, make Reddit a source for anybody to publish their own magazines. Why does Reddit have writers and editors and creative directo…

>Incentivize for the behavior you want. This isn't as straightforward as it seems. It's kind of like that old quote, "When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure." If the behavior you want is there because people are just casually messing around for fake internet points, it will change when you compensate them. It's probably possible, but far from simple.

[DELETED]

Re: Reddit is still in turmoil

#85
post #39

Why the hell is Reddit trying to make their own content when the entire point of the site is for the users to create the content? Don't make a Reddit podcast, make Reddit a podcast hosting network. Don't make a Reddit video show, make Reddit a video hosting site. Don't make a Reddit magazine, make Reddit a source for anybody to publish their own magazines. Why does Reddit have writers and editors and creative directo…

Or just provide better targeted advertising... On Facebook you can advertise to people based on demographics, interests, behavior, etc. On Reddit you can't even place an add on a specific subreddit if it's not one of the big ones.

> On Reddit you can't even place an add on a specific subreddit if it's not one of the big ones.

Would someone please confirm this? If true, wow.

Re: Reddit is still in turmoil

#86
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Incentivize for the behavior you want. This isn't as straightforward as it seems. It's kind of like that old quote, "When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure." If the behavior you want is there because people are just casually messing around for fake internet points, it will change when you compensate them. It's probably possible, but far from simple.

[DELETED]

You could say it more formally as, "Many variables correlated to outcomes you want are not causes of those outcomes. When you intervene and change those variables, they cease to be correlated to the outcomes," but it's a bit verbose[0]. I've always read it to be not about measuring things, but about optimizing the wrong thing, because people will game the system. The concept is valid. What's your concern?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law#Expressions Turns out the original formulation was "Any observed statistical regularity will tend to collapse once pressure is placed upon it for control purposes."

Re: Reddit is still in turmoil

#87
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is most high quality advertisers don't want to have their brand promoted along side user generated content. So while Reddit has a ton of traffic, much of that traffic is worthless to the most desirable advertisers.

Isn't that exactly Facebook's business model?

Sort of. Facebook also pours money into making its platform family-friendly through moderation teams, auto-detection of obscene/inappropriate content, etc. Not to mention all the analytics and targeting capabilities of their advertising programs. Being a household name, they're also so huge that it's impossible to ignore - grandma's not on Reddit but there's a pretty good chance she's on Facebook.

Re: Reddit is still in turmoil

#88
post #46

Reddit isn't Internet infrastructure. It is a startup. The plan from day one was to make a kinder, gentler imageboard, get acquired, and make the founders rich.

You can't make inflammatory assertions about people without evidence here.

Also, please don't create many obscure throwaway accounts on HN. This forum is a community. Anonymity is fine, but users should have some consistent identity that other users can relate to. Otherwise we may as well have no usernames and no community, and that would be an entirely different forum.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12140780 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Reddit is still in turmoil

#89
post #66

You should also disclose that you're the source for the TC article. It's pretty obvious.

We've banned this account (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12141496). You can't concoct unfounded charges about what you imagine somebody has done, let alone pursue them even after they deny it. That crosses into harassment, and nobody gets to treat anybody else like that here.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12140907 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Reddit is still in turmoil

#90

My use of reddit is way own. I'm tired of going to the front page and seeing so many submissions about things I don't care about like multiple video games, dumb inside jokes like r/circlejerk or all those repetitive links about Trump or Sanders. I know I can buy gold and customize the front page, but I am a little hesitant to pay money to make the front page not suck. I have ads turned on in my adblocker so they do g…

You don't have to buy gold to customize the front page. Any account can customize subscriptions.
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