Live data from Hacker News

Reddit is still in turmoil

techcrunch.com

71–80 of 521 posts

Re: Reddit is still in turmoil

#71
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we more civilized when there is no anonymous free speech, and people are abusive only in semi-private situations?

I think so. Actions toward others have a much larger societal impact than privately held beliefs. For example, if someone has racist beliefs which do not affect his actions in any way, his effect on other people in society would be exactly the same as it would be if he did not have racist beliefs. In other words, beliefs that are not acted on or expressed have no effect on society. There may be some social benefit to…

I can't imagine a situation where someone has beliefs that do not affect his actions in any way.

I would agree that unexpressed values would propagate less.

Re: Reddit is still in turmoil

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think so. Actions toward others have a much larger societal impact than privately held beliefs. For example, if someone has racist beliefs which do not affect his actions in any way, his effect on other people in society would be exactly the same as it would be if he did not have racist beliefs. In other words, beliefs that are not acted on or expressed have no effect on society. There may be some social benefit to…

I can't imagine a situation where someone has beliefs that do not affect his actions in any way. I would agree that unexpressed values would propagate less.

> I can't imagine a situation where someone has beliefs that do not affect his actions in any way.

That was an extreme example used to illustrate the point I was making. Racism is also only an example; there are plenty of other beliefs that are bad for society. Personally, I suspect that sexism is probably far more prevalent on Reddit than racism, for example.

Social stigma can prevent one's beliefs from affecting one's actions, or at least reduce the effect of those beliefs on one's actions. If it is shameful to be perceived as a racist, racists will attempt to hide their racism by not acting in racist ways toward others, at least when other people are looking. This does not obviate the effects of unconscious biases or eliminate racism, but the net result for society is fewer overtly racist actions, and that's a good thing.

If racism becomes acceptable again, racists will feel freer to act on their beliefs, which will make life worse for the targets of their racism. So, there is a case to be made that if people repress their beliefs only partially, society is better off -- not as much better off as if certain people repressed their beliefs fully, but still better off.

The danger of allowing racism to flourish in online communities, especially ones as large as Reddit and Twitter, is that it re-normalizes racism and makes it seem acceptable to be a racist. It can be more than merely acceptable -- it can even be a contrarian badge of pride, justified as a rebellion against political correctness. (That kind of justification for it is reinforced when anti-harassment policies are not uniformly and consistently enforced, because it can make moderation appear to be arbitrary or politically motivated.) When that kind of thing happens, it makes society worse.

Re: Reddit is still in turmoil

#73
post #58

Reddit, from a business perspective, baffles me. During the Yishan Wong/Ellen Pao era, we had Reddit-Made and Reddit TV, both of which bombed especially. Under Alexis Ohanian, we had Upvoted and Formative which as the article notes were killed silently. Reddit released a native app and an image host years too late. (I just checked the data and it is not killing Imgur: Reddit image usage was 18% in the top image subre…

Pao is thoroughly an MBA-type. Business schools teach that the way to wealth is to start a startup and have it acquired. Or, failing that, work your way into a nascent startup and get bought out. Every post from her that I saw simply oozed business-school sleaze. Pao's discourse was more appropriate for the boardroom than for the embodiment of alt-media that is Reddit. Gratingly so, and Yishan to a lesser extent. I h…

I think Yishan Wong goes in the completely opposite direction. I think the opposite direction is better BTW. I really wish for example the restrictions can be reduced or removed so board of directors (like @pmarca) can tweet more on public companies.

Re: Reddit is still in turmoil

#74
post #63

Wow. What a hit piece. I bet their anonymous source happens to be the ex VP of Product that was fired by Pao, and is now building a 'safer' Reddit. Conflict much? In their sources quote, it's evident the source knows a lot of the inner workings of the leadership, is a man, and doesn't work there anymore. Well, that leaves only the ex VP, seeing as though Pao was a woman. So they took all of Dan's words as truth? The…

How do you know those people did not leave voluntarily? Do you work there?

Re: Reddit is still in turmoil

#75
post #39

Why the hell is Reddit trying to make their own content when the entire point of the site is for the users to create the content? Don't make a Reddit podcast, make Reddit a podcast hosting network. Don't make a Reddit video show, make Reddit a video hosting site. Don't make a Reddit magazine, make Reddit a source for anybody to publish their own magazines. Why does Reddit have writers and editors and creative directo…

>Incentivize for the behavior you want.

This isn't as straightforward as it seems. It's kind of like that old quote, "When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure." If the behavior you want is there because people are just casually messing around for fake internet points, it will change when you compensate them. It's probably possible, but far from simple.

Re: Reddit is still in turmoil

#76
post #63

Wow. What a hit piece. I bet their anonymous source happens to be the ex VP of Product that was fired by Pao, and is now building a 'safer' Reddit. Conflict much? In their sources quote, it's evident the source knows a lot of the inner workings of the leadership, is a man, and doesn't work there anymore. Well, that leaves only the ex VP, seeing as though Pao was a woman. So they took all of Dan's words as truth? The…

I was not a source.

Re: Reddit is still in turmoil

#78
post #18

I think much of Reddit's problems with its userbase boil down to an early failure to manage expectations. It's pretty clear that the Reddit corporation doesn't want Reddit to be an anything-goes, absolute free speech zone with no moderation or anti-harassment policies -- but that's what the site actually was for many years. Now, when the company cracks down, users think their freedoms are being curtailed. The mistake…

I think the biggest problem with it in general was how it greatly relied upon moderators of the individual subreddits. This inherently creates problems as they have to rely upon many individuals who have very different ideas and goals from the Reddit staff, both in terms of monetization and in moderation. It is inherent in social media, the more stuff you allow on your platform, the less able you are to generate reve…

It is an interesting idea that it is the censoring that makes Facebook profitable, but I'm not sure that I agree with it.

I would say that the "made a platform that is much more easily advertised upon" is the important part, combined with the massive data-gathering so the ads can be targeted better.

Re: Reddit is still in turmoil

#79
post #31

Since Alexis and Huffman returned I've seen more happen with the brand than in the several years preceding. I don't know who made their mobile app but it is damn good. I resisted at first but am now using it as my primary means for consuming content on Reddit.

Once Reddit do a Twitter and limit their API in such a way that kills off alternative apps such as Relay, I'm done with it. Monetization plans can only go so far before people start leaving.

Re: Reddit is still in turmoil

#80

I think much of Reddit's problems with its userbase boil down to an early failure to manage expectations. It's pretty clear that the Reddit corporation doesn't want Reddit to be an anything-goes, absolute free speech zone with no moderation or anti-harassment policies -- but that's what the site actually was for many years. Now, when the company cracks down, users think their freedoms are being curtailed. The mistake…

Reddit is owned by Advance Publications and some other investors (there was a round a few years ago http://www.redditblog.com/2014/09/fundraising-for-reddit.htm... ).

Advance also owns Conde Nast, but they restructured reddit out of Conde Nast in 2011.

Post reply on HN