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Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

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Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#381

Post by Oletros »

zepto wrote: post #367
Oletros wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People keep saying this, but punishing the UK for leaving could easily give further fuel to the French leave campaign. Giving the same deal that they have right now is what will give further fuel to leave. Why should I stay when I can have a better deal leaving?

Sure - but the converse - punishing them for leaving - confirms that the EU is a political hegemony whose purpose is to usurp sovereignty, rather than a mutually beneficial union of member states who are members by choice. That would provide perfect ammunition for nationalists everywhere. See: http://newobserveronline.com/brexit-contagion-germany-fears-...

> Sure - but the converse - punishing them for leaving

In what world is punishing having a worst deal that they have now because they don't have the duties?

And yes, you talk about mutual beneficial union, that is not what UK wants

Do you have read your link? Because it says that the contagion will happen if there is a good deal with UK. Just the contrary you say

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#382

Post by Oletros »

goldenkey wrote: post #362
Oletros wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cleaning staff. Not having to compete with EU illegal immigrants will improve their labor conditions If now there are "illegal", how will change when the UK leaves?

Passport requirements will change meaning that fake passports for countries other than the UK will not be accepted. Did you read about the rush for Irish passports?

The rush for Irish passports is to have UE citizenship

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#383

Post by devdas »

tukum wrote: post #352
yongjik wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone in HN yesterday was literally ranting about Polish sausage shops in London. I don't think they'll be happier with Indian restaurants...?

It appears that British love curry a lot[1], and they are having issues with getting qualified chefs in the country from Asia[2]. [1] http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/0/24432750 [2] https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/22/curry-restau...

No one is preventing the UK from adding exceptions for Indians.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#384

Post by Tomte »

jacquesm wrote: post #374
Tomte wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're confusing the start of the process of leaving and the following negotiations. Britain and the EU have symmetrical, opposed interests there: The EU wants a fast official declaration from the UK that they want to leave. They want to start the clock running. If after two years there is no agreement, so what, let's negotiate for however long it takes. Britain wants fast negotiations, because their economy depends…

It's not that simple: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36631518

What do you mean? I don't see anything in that article that might have a connection with what I wrote. Except that it's about Brexit.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#385

Post by PlainsWight »

moultano wrote: post #115
jacalata wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an even faster growing trend of people who campaign on really explicit "stop immigration, prevent foreigners from ruining our culture" platforms turning around and saying 'how dare you call me racist!'

I don't think "foreigners have a different culture that I don't like" is a racist statement. For a US citizen it's certainly a hypocritical statement, but the case isn't as clear to me for Europe.

"Foreigners have a different culture that I don't like, so I'm going to keep all of them out" seems like a pretty racist statement to me. You have to do some serious mental gymnastics to not make it so. For example, substitute "Jews" for "foreigners," and it's clearly an anti-Semitic statement.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#386

Post by PlainsWight »

moultano wrote: post #115
jacalata wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an even faster growing trend of people who campaign on really explicit "stop immigration, prevent foreigners from ruining our culture" platforms turning around and saying 'how dare you call me racist!'

I don't think "foreigners have a different culture that I don't like" is a racist statement. For a US citizen it's certainly a hypocritical statement, but the case isn't as clear to me for Europe.

What is the minimal change to that statement that would make it racist? It comes off as racist to me, but I'm interested to hear your perspective.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#387

Post by zeveb »

ubernostrum wrote: post #373
zeveb wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which 150 year period in US history are you comparing to which 30 year period in EU history? The destruction of the states as meaningful sovereign entities and the rise of the central government, which accelerated in the late 1860s (prior to which most Americans would have considered themselves citizens of their states more than of America), got worse in the teens, got worse in the 30s and 40s, and has gotten progr…

The destruction of the states as meaningful sovereign entities and the rise of the central government First, there's an awful lot of historical revisionism in your comment; we had a system of incredibly limited central government, in which states were the "meaningful" sovereigns and the union into a single nation could almost pass without noticing. And that was the system the Constitution was written to replace . Sec…

> And that was the system the Constitution was written to replace.

Compared to what we have today, the Constitutional system is one of 'incredibly limited central government.'

> do you believe the United States would be better operating under such a system again?

I believe that the United States would be better operating under the Constitution than under the unconstitutional mess it is now.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#388

Post by mywittyname »

searine wrote: post #292
mywittyname wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, it's original purpose was literally to prevent war between France and Germany. > 'make war not only unthinkable but materially impossible' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Coal_and_Steel_Commun...

Yes I am sure the European Coal and Steel Community had peace as their primary motivator in their creation of a globalist market for their product.

Peace absolutely was their primary motivation because it's impossible to have any sort of prosperity when neighboring states are waging a brutal war every generation. The rivalry of France and Germany has existed since long before German unification and was long considered to be unavoidable. Which is why the primary goal of the ECSC to prevent either nation from independently producing weapons of war.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#389

Post by groby_b »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #286
tokensimian wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to jump in uninvited... but that's what HN is. I think you're mischaracterizing the situation. Perspective 1: UK is breaking up with the EU, not vice-versa. P2: EU gets some adv/dis-advantages by including UK specifically P3: UK had some advantages/disadvantages from being part of EU P4: EU has incentive outside of British sitch to stay unified My (american) perspective is that Britain should stay in the EU bec…

Generally speaking I favor taking the short term pain of breaking up with an abusive spouse. When France decided to leave the previous union of European states, the #remain folks definitely inflicted a lot of short term pain. Lots of French beaches still have monuments thanking the British, American and Canadian soldiers who died in support of #leave. Did that short term pain make #leave the wrong choice? Also, as a…

Let's be very clear - the term "abusive" in a context of treaties is somewhat ridiculous.

And the pain GB will experience post-leave is due to not having access of benefits a treaty granted them. The leave folk believe that's fine, and it'll be a long-term benefit. That's arguable, but leaving that aside: The short-term pain is entirely self-inflicted.

Blaming that on the EU is a rather staggering amount of cognitive dissonance.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#390

Post by gnaritas »

volatilitish wrote: post #380
gnaritas wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The majority of people voted to leave the EU and to regain independence. The older generation voted for it, the youth voted against, and it barely passed, so the old people just created a future the younger generation doesn't want; this is a terrible outcome. The Brexit just eliminated the right of free travel and work across all of the EU for the upcoming generation, they aren't happy about that. You've just shot…

The older generation have seen 40 years of the EU. They know it cannot be reformed, and they know it is a corrupt undemocratic rotten sham. Young people have been fed pro-EU propaganda from the earliest ages at nursery, school, and university. We certainly haven't shot ourselves in the foot. We have taken back our democracy and right to self rule.

You only think you have, you've just tanked your economy and weakened your power in the world, it's really not a good thing and your young people are smart enough to see it.
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