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Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

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Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#371

Post by amscanne »

Daishiman wrote: post #239
zepto wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People keep saying this, but punishing the UK for leaving could easily give further fuel to the French leave campaign. And of course an exited Britain could extend an olive branch to France.

After a 10% reduction in real income for the Brits just one day after the referendum? Fat chance.

What does "real income" mean to you? Income in USD?

The only sensible way to measure income is with purchasing power, and that's far more complex than an exchange rate (since many of the services and goods originate in the UK anyways).

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#372

Post by ac2u »

iofj wrote: post #297
snowwrestler wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest hit is not in goods trade but in financial flows. With the UK part of the EU, major financial institutions could base in London to serve the entire EU. Once the UK exits the EU, they can't, at least not without a lot of extra costs and paperwork. London, one of the 3 financial capitals of the globe, will lose its status in favor (probably) of a more diverse mix of European cities. This will have downstrea…

I don't think many UK citizens see big financial flows as being to their advantage. For 90%+ of them, I think that assessment is correct. Globalization has been dealt a serious blow here, and if you're pro-equality, that should be a good thing. Take an obvious and very direct example. Cleaning staff. Not having to compete with EU illegal immigrants will improve their labor conditions. Building workers and Polish gues…

Can you elaborate on the structure the 4 london based startups use?

My understanding is that selling digital products within the EU to other EU countries is annoying. The main reason I hear is having to collect VAT for each B2B transaction at the rate of the country you're selling to.

When it comes time to settle the taxes it is handled in an aggregated manner with one filing under a VATMOSS scheme, which distributes the collected VAT to the member states in one go. This attempt at simplification seems to have backfired with many calling it 'VATMESS'.

However, from what I read online, US based companies selling into the EU technically have to charge this too (although they can aggregate it as well under a 'Non-Union' VATMOSS filing).

With the above in mind, is the structure you talk about in place for other reasons than VAT?

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#373

Post by ubernostrum »

zeveb wrote: post #105
dragonwriter wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think that a United States of Europe is inevitable, and even a good idea, but it should have been done slowly, gradually and with respect for the differing peoples of Britain and the Continent. It has been done slowly and gradually, and Britain for a long time has been pretty clear that they don't want to go in that direction at all . > Instead, what took about 150 year for America was rammed through in about 30.…

> Which 150 year period in US history are you comparing to which 30 year period in EU history? The destruction of the states as meaningful sovereign entities and the rise of the central government, which accelerated in the late 1860s (prior to which most Americans would have considered themselves citizens of their states more than of America), got worse in the teens, got worse in the 30s and 40s, and has gotten progr…

The destruction of the states as meaningful sovereign entities and the rise of the central government

First, there's an awful lot of historical revisionism in your comment; we had a system of incredibly limited central government, in which states were the "meaningful" sovereigns and the union into a single nation could almost pass without noticing. And that was the system the Constitution was written to replace.

Second, in light of the historical evidence regarding the failure of the first system (the Articles of Confederation), do you believe the United States would be better operating under such a system again?

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#374

Post by jacquesm »

Tomte wrote: post #335
jacquesm wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also the UK will want a super fast negotation, the rest of the EU are not so much in a hurry. It seems to be rather the opposite. The EU is calling for fast negotiations whereas the UK is taking it easy.

You're confusing the start of the process of leaving and the following negotiations. Britain and the EU have symmetrical, opposed interests there: The EU wants a fast official declaration from the UK that they want to leave. They want to start the clock running. If after two years there is no agreement, so what, let's negotiate for however long it takes. Britain wants fast negotiations, because their economy depends…

It's not that simple:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36631518

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#375

Post by JanezStupar »

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #349
JanezStupar wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullshit. On the order of 1000 women got assaulted. One person got sentenced thus far, to the best of my knowledge - and he is indeed a "fresh immigrant". You have absolutely no basis for your claims.

There were about 2k incidents in total all across Germany, and 5 reported rapes. That's 0.25%. That's 5 too many rapes, and 2k assaults (groping etc) too many, I've been molested before and it's obviously unacceptable. But it's also a far cry from rape, usually, like in my case. Yet the media at times reported on this as if there were thousands of women getting raped in the streets. Those were blatant lies. Some view…

I am getting mixed signals from society.

One day looking at women is rape. The other day mobs assaulting women in a Taharrush is blowing things out of proportion.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#376

Post by IkmoIkmo »

JanezStupar wrote: post #375
IkmoIkmo wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were about 2k incidents in total all across Germany, and 5 reported rapes. That's 0.25%. That's 5 too many rapes, and 2k assaults (groping etc) too many, I've been molested before and it's obviously unacceptable. But it's also a far cry from rape, usually, like in my case. Yet the media at times reported on this as if there were thousands of women getting raped in the streets. Those were blatant lies. Some view…

I am getting mixed signals from society. One day looking at women is rape. The other day mobs assaulting women in a Taharrush is blowing things out of proportion.

Come on, don't be silly.

I won't even comment on the former, it's akin to a silly stereotype of the feminist movement you see on 4Chan.

Mobs assaulting women is not blowing things out of proportion, in and of itself. All of that deserves attention, none of that is acceptable, and I welcome these facts being presented.

But groping a woman and raping a woman are two different things, and you simply shouldn't report the former as the latter. If you do, you blow it out of proportion, there's nothing strange about this. Similarly there's a difference between punching a man and shooting a man, between stealing a pair of shoes and stealing a car. Just stick to the facts. 0.25% of incidents involving rape, is not mass rape. 5 reported rapes on NYE, while more than 20 are reported daily in Germany, and twice as much happen every year during Octoberfest, is not some new level of mass rape. If you don't report that honestly and blatantly lie about that (and other things, like e.g. a 13 year old getting gang-raped for 30 hours which never happened, but incited fear and hatred, which have led to increased hate crimes in the past year) then yes, you are blowing things out of proportion. That isn't a mixed signal.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#377

Post by volatilitish »

sangnoir wrote: post #361
volatilitish wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have an inkling that's why the 'Leave' campaign is delaying the invocation of article 50. Seriously. Do you even know what you're talking about? Only our elected government (who were on the remain side), can invoke article 50, and it's up to them to decide when. Hopefully the whole EU does collapse.

> Do you even know what you're talking about As a matter of fact, yes I do. Boris Johnson has come out and said there is "no need to rush", and he was on the Leave side. > Only our elected government (who were on the remain side), can invoke article 50 That's just a roundabout way of saying "The Tories", innit? Cameron is a lame duck, and if the Leave wing of the Tories wanted him out tomorrow, he'd be out tomorrow.

And Boris Johnson isn't in any position of power currently. It's not up to him yet.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#378

Post by volatilitish »

jacquesm wrote: post #211
volatilitish wrote: post #2

As a brit, it's strange to see how it's being spun here. The majority of people voted to leave the EU and to regain independence. There will be a little volatility until some facts about how that divorce happens, emerge. Long term, we now have control of our future. In terms of startups though, the EU is there to serve big businesses and powerful establishment. It's there to hinder startups and small businesses. If y…

Stability has a cost. And that cost is well worth bearing.

Are you seriously holding up the EU as some bastion of stability? How stable is Greece? Seriously - you should research it a little more. The EU is perilously unstable.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#379

Post by volatilitish »

sorokod wrote: post #212
volatilitish wrote: post #2

As a brit, it's strange to see how it's being spun here. The majority of people voted to leave the EU and to regain independence. There will be a little volatility until some facts about how that divorce happens, emerge. Long term, we now have control of our future. In terms of startups though, the EU is there to serve big businesses and powerful establishment. It's there to hinder startups and small businesses. If y…

For whatever it's worth, the majority of Londoners voted remain.

They did. Because London has become absolutely culturally detatched from the rest of the UK. The rich elite living in Islington really do love the EU.

Unfortunately, the EU hasn't been quite so good for people who don't live in London or Scotland.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#380

Post by volatilitish »

gnaritas wrote: post #236
volatilitish wrote: post #2

As a brit, it's strange to see how it's being spun here. The majority of people voted to leave the EU and to regain independence. There will be a little volatility until some facts about how that divorce happens, emerge. Long term, we now have control of our future. In terms of startups though, the EU is there to serve big businesses and powerful establishment. It's there to hinder startups and small businesses. If y…

> The majority of people voted to leave the EU and to regain independence. The older generation voted for it, the youth voted against, and it barely passed, so the old people just created a future the younger generation doesn't want; this is a terrible outcome. The Brexit just eliminated the right of free travel and work across all of the EU for the upcoming generation, they aren't happy about that. You've just shot…

The older generation have seen 40 years of the EU. They know it cannot be reformed, and they know it is a corrupt undemocratic rotten sham.

Young people have been fed pro-EU propaganda from the earliest ages at nursery, school, and university.

We certainly haven't shot ourselves in the foot. We have taken back our democracy and right to self rule.

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