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Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

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Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clearly, free trade can and did exist before 1992, 1957, and 1942. My point was that the initial idea behind the union (in it's various forms) was to ease the pain felt by the existing regressive protectionism of the region. All in all, considering the relatively small size of the world (economically), this was a great idea. However, over time the union has taken on even more restrictive forms of protectionism except…

> Clearly, free trade can and did exist before 1992, 1957, and 1942. Trade did exist. Free trade less so, and a durable expectation of free trade on predictable terms (free or otherwise) even less so.

Not sure how I'm failing to make my point. I said post WW Europe had regressive protectionism. The initial unions did alleviate some of that. However, over time it turned into a larger version of the initial problem.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#102
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So no companies have announced they are moving. They are evaluating the situation, as any responsible corporation should. The UK banking system is not about to collapse.

London will give up its position as "world financial capital," I would think. That always seemed a bit odd, and now that they're losing one of their main advantages...

[deleted]

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#103
post #48

This may mean the breakup of the United Kingdom, too. Scotland and Northern Ireland mostly want to stay in Europe, and may choose to leave the UK, leaving Britain and Wales as the UK.[1] As a practical matter, it will become harder to do business into the EU from Britain. Visiting the EU from Britain may require a visa, and visiting Britain from the EU almost certainly will. This is really about Keeping Britain White…

This sounds very close to "Brexit supporters are racist." There seems to be a growing trend of people labeling anything they don't like with some -ist to shut down discussion.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#104
post #48

This may mean the breakup of the United Kingdom, too. Scotland and Northern Ireland mostly want to stay in Europe, and may choose to leave the UK, leaving Britain and Wales as the UK.[1] As a practical matter, it will become harder to do business into the EU from Britain. Visiting the EU from Britain may require a visa, and visiting Britain from the EU almost certainly will. This is really about Keeping Britain White…

> Visiting the EU from Britain may require a visa, and visiting Britain from the EU almost certainly will. Oh I wouldn't worry one second about this. UK allows visit without a visa from a multitude of countries. This is not changing (nor the EU side)

The Visa Waiver Agreement still requires you to stand in line and wait for an interview, the only difference is it takes place in the airport/etc on the day vs embassy.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#105
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when the UK joined the European common market The problem is that the EU should have remained the Common Market, instead of growing into a largely unaccountable, largely undemocratic, largely technocratic, ungainly nightmare. I think that a United States of Europe is inevitable, and even a good idea, but it should have been done slowly, gradually and with respect for the differing peoples of Britain and the Contine…

> I think that a United States of Europe is inevitable, and even a good idea, but it should have been done slowly, gradually and with respect for the differing peoples of Britain and the Continent. It has been done slowly and gradually, and Britain for a long time has been pretty clear that they don't want to go in that direction at all . > Instead, what took about 150 year for America was rammed through in about 30.…

> Which 150 year period in US history are you comparing to which 30 year period in EU history?

The destruction of the states as meaningful sovereign entities and the rise of the central government, which accelerated in the late 1860s (prior to which most Americans would have considered themselves citizens of their states more than of America), got worse in the teens, got worse in the 30s and 40s, and has gotten progressively worse every decade since.

The difference is that the United States of America were a deliberate, intentional, open attempt to form a federal government, while the European Union was a slow-motion, back-door, sneaky attempt to form a centralised continental state.

The U.S. Constitution very explicitly limits the power of the central government: it restricts the government it establishes to very little more than what you mention (a navy, international treaties and interstate commerce). The proposed, rejected and then adopted anyway European Constitution, OTOH, rejected ironclad separation of powers in favour of fuzzy, undecidable things like the 'principle of subsidiarity,' which is of course in the eye of the beholder. What makes this particularly crazy is that America was a far more culturally homogeneous place in 1788 than Europe is in 2016: they should have taken things extremely slowly, imposing only the absolute bare minimum required and then stopping for decades before increasing centralisation.

Rather than learn from and avoid repeating America's death of federalism, the EU decided to just jump right in and annihilate its member states as meaningful entities.

Like I said, I think that a United States of Europe is inevitable. Heck, I think that a more-centralised America was also inevitable and in many respects desirable. But there's no need to accelerate the process. Take it slowly, take it soberly and take it judiciously.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#106
post #48

This may mean the breakup of the United Kingdom, too. Scotland and Northern Ireland mostly want to stay in Europe, and may choose to leave the UK, leaving Britain and Wales as the UK.[1] As a practical matter, it will become harder to do business into the EU from Britain. Visiting the EU from Britain may require a visa, and visiting Britain from the EU almost certainly will. This is really about Keeping Britain White…

This sounds very close to "Brexit supporters are racist." There seems to be a growing trend of people labeling anything they don't like with some -ist to shut down discussion.

There is an even faster growing trend of people who campaign on really explicit "stop immigration, prevent foreigners from ruining our culture" platforms turning around and saying 'how dare you call me racist!'

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#107

A bureaucracy in Brussels is hardly necessary to enact simple pan-European tariff reductions. It is necessary, however, to begin building what globalism truly demands: a de facto European government, complete with dense regulatory and tax rules, quasi-judicial bodies, a nascent military, and further subordination of national, linguistic, and cultural identities.

Why should the people of England care what globalism "demands"?

And from my perspective, they don't care. While part of the EU, GB has yet to move off the GBP for the Euro.

Also, it looks like Brexit will kill the LSE-DB merger. With LSE slated to be the lesser partner, I doubt the move would have been in GB's best interest.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Scotland and Northern Ireland mostly want to stay in Europe NI is in a real bad situation though, they mostly want to stay in the EU but I don't think they can survive as an independent country[0], so they're stuck between their Unionist majority / Out minority on one side and the In majority / Nationalist minority on the other. Historical polls put the Union majority as comparable to the In one but United Ireland…

I heard on the news earlier that already large numbers have sought Eire citizenship by applying for an Irish (hence EU) passport. (All northern Ireland citizens are entitled to dual nationality). So it may end up helping the United Ireland opinion by proxy if large numbers continue to seek Irish passports.

Hmm, would it? A lot of people might be ok with sitting back and letting it play out if they had the escape valve of still being an EU citizen.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#109
post #48

This may mean the breakup of the United Kingdom, too. Scotland and Northern Ireland mostly want to stay in Europe, and may choose to leave the UK, leaving Britain and Wales as the UK.[1] As a practical matter, it will become harder to do business into the EU from Britain. Visiting the EU from Britain may require a visa, and visiting Britain from the EU almost certainly will. This is really about Keeping Britain White…

This sounds very close to "Brexit supporters are racist." There seems to be a growing trend of people labeling anything they don't like with some -ist to shut down discussion.

Since one of the Brexit leave leaders and the main voice calling for a referendum for years is Farage it seems reasonable enough to say that some Brexiters are racist and voted for racist reasons.

Would you prefer xenophobic?

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#110
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when the UK joined the European common market The problem is that the EU should have remained the Common Market, instead of growing into a largely unaccountable, largely undemocratic, largely technocratic, ungainly nightmare. I think that a United States of Europe is inevitable, and even a good idea, but it should have been done slowly, gradually and with respect for the differing peoples of Britain and the Contine…

> for the differing peoples of Britain and the Continent So you on the islands are special but we monkeys on the continent are all the same? The UK has been half-in/half-out of the EU for the last 40 years, always wanting extra on all the benefits and never taking a downside in return. I'm glad you've finally made up your mind, as one way or the other this shitshow will finally end.

> > for the differing peoples of Britain and the Continent

So you on the islands are special but we monkeys on the continent are all the same?

No — a Brit and a Frenchman almost certainly have more in common than a Frenchman and a Czech. This is part of why the EU process should have taken centuries instead of being accelerated. Trying to fake one artificial common culture across an entire continent was a mistake: it would have happened organically, given time.

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