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Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

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Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#111

Post by masklinn »

tomp wrote: post #100
yummyfajitas wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more like one spouse saying "I'm leaving you, please don't hurt the children". (By analogy, the citizens of Britain/France/etc are the children, who'd like to continue to play with one another, but perhaps one of their abusive parents will use violence to prevent this.)

I agree with yummyfajitas here. A rational person would say "OK, we're not compatible, let's split up, but no point destroying the house, spending all our money on lawyers and kill each other". An irrational, emotional, greedy or terribly insecure person would say "You? Leaving me ? How could you?! You FUCKER! I'LL RUIN YOU!!! AAAARGGGGGHHHH!!!!!"

You've got your roles exactly inverted here. The UK left screaming, huffing and smashing the door but apparently expecting the same benefits they enjoyed beforehand, as a rational person the EU would have no reason whatsoever to entertain that behaviour let alone reward it.

The EU has no rational reason to be especially sweet on the UK, and looking internally and at the future it can't even be seen as that as it would bolster eurosceptic movements inside the Union.

There's no point of view under which being soft on the UK is rational.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#112

Post by dragonwriter »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #53
masklinn wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You make the EU sound like an abusive spouse. "Don't leave me or I'll hurt you!" The UK decided that it could tell the EU to get fucked and get all the benefits of the relationship without any of the drawbacks, it is not in the EU's interest to confirm that and it has very little reason to bend over for the UK. To reuse your ménage analogy, it's more like one spouse deciding to up and go and asking for the house, c…

It's more like one spouse saying "I'm leaving you, please don't hurt the children". (By analogy, the citizens of Britain/France/etc are the children, who'd like to continue to play with one another, but perhaps one of their abusive parents will use violence to prevent this.)

But its the citizens of Britain that decided that they were leaving, so who is supposed to be the "parent" that's leaving if the citizens of Britain are "the children"?

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#113

Post by gambiting »

coderdude wrote: post #25
gambiting wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a good chance that Theresa May becomes the next MP, and if she does, British internet will be much worse than anything you can find inside the EU - she already tried cracking down on open internet multiple times. If anything, EU would have protected UK from such stupid ideas.

Like I said, I hope the best for them. You can throw political propaganda at me all day long but I respect them for leaving.

How is discussing possible options propaganda? And no, I have no respect for anyone who voted leave,they have fucked millions of people today without any plan how to improve things long term. If there was a plan,I would admire leavers for thinking long term - but there's nothing there.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#114

Post by ParrotyError »

volatilitish wrote: post #2

As a brit, it's strange to see how it's being spun here. The majority of people voted to leave the EU and to regain independence. There will be a little volatility until some facts about how that divorce happens, emerge. Long term, we now have control of our future. In terms of startups though, the EU is there to serve big businesses and powerful establishment. It's there to hinder startups and small businesses. If y…

Are you nuts? We already had control. Now the future of the UK is in jeopardy because of you tinfoil hat brigade.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#115

Post by moultano »

jacalata wrote: post #106
Lawtonfogle wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds very close to "Brexit supporters are racist." There seems to be a growing trend of people labeling anything they don't like with some -ist to shut down discussion.

There is an even faster growing trend of people who campaign on really explicit "stop immigration, prevent foreigners from ruining our culture" platforms turning around and saying 'how dare you call me racist!'

I don't think "foreigners have a different culture that I don't like" is a racist statement. For a US citizen it's certainly a hypocritical statement, but the case isn't as clear to me for Europe.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#116

Post by mjevans »

mioelnir wrote: post #73
robk wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How's that? An American company doesn't charge VAT unless they have a EU subsidiary. UK would be closer to that treatment

Why would the EU give such a favorable deal to a country as unimportant as UK? The EU-member UK leaving is an important signal; but non-EU-member Uk is an irrelevant tiny market. The Brexit camps idea that they could leave so they could finally pick whatever they like, as they have been trying to do for the last 40 years, is cute but laughably naive. They will not continue to receive the free travel, trade access and…

That is what I'm hoping for.

I'm hoping that in a few weeks, after the international wake up call has finally reached the ears of those who voted with emotion instead of logic, there will actually be a full election in the UK.

I then hope that with the backing of the people's vote getting new officials in to office that they resist the call to invoke Article 50, and instead bring grievances to the EU along with some ways that a more fair union can continue moving forward.

This would show a more mature and world class level of leadership; and help to restore the confidence in the rest of the world that the UK won't cut off it's own legs out of spite.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#117

Post by mc32 »

jacalata wrote: post #106
Lawtonfogle wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds very close to "Brexit supporters are racist." There seems to be a growing trend of people labeling anything they don't like with some -ist to shut down discussion.

There is an even faster growing trend of people who campaign on really explicit "stop immigration, prevent foreigners from ruining our culture" platforms turning around and saying 'how dare you call me racist!'

Do people call Japan's immigration policy racist? Or do people not bemoan China controlling Tibet because, among other things, Tibet'd lose their cultural identity (this is separate from the valid argument about annexation and human rights issues). What about Bhutan, should we propose they go full globalization and either take on western culture, or Japanese or Korean culture?

Fundamentally countries have a right to self determination and that includes the future direction of the countries, culturally, economically, etc. So long as it does not encroach on other countries' sovereignty.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#118

Post by illumin8 »

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #75
dr_ick wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> full on collapse of the UK banking system Hyperbole much? Stop with the fear mongering. Also, which "large companies" have announced they are moving? Source?

London was the de facto capital (as in, economic powerhouse) of the EU, where you'd create your EU headquarters for its connection to the EU, its most talented individuals, its market, and to some extent its political connections. This will no longer be true. No longer will you have automatic access to the rest of the market, no longer can talent so easily flow, no longer does the UK hold a 10% vote in the EU, no lon…

Thanks for clarifying it in a way that's perhaps a little less hyperbolic than my "full on collapse." I think it's important to understand the passporting agreements between banks in the UK that allowed them to essentially act as if they were banks in the EU created a ton of prosperity over the last several decades (2.1 million jobs in finance alone in the UK).

This industry is going to take a huge hit, and frankly, even if you don't work in finance, you should care because it will impact everyone in the country.

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#119

Post by raverbashing »

benologist wrote: post #104
raverbashing wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Visiting the EU from Britain may require a visa, and visiting Britain from the EU almost certainly will. Oh I wouldn't worry one second about this. UK allows visit without a visa from a multitude of countries. This is not changing (nor the EU side)

The Visa Waiver Agreement still requires you to stand in line and wait for an interview, the only difference is it takes place in the airport/etc on the day vs embassy.

"Visa Waiver" is US terminology

And yeah, pretty much all places that don't require a visa do that

Re: Doom, Gloom and Unease: London's Tech Scene Reacts to Brexit

#120

Post by tomp »

masklinn wrote: post #111
tomp wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with yummyfajitas here. A rational person would say "OK, we're not compatible, let's split up, but no point destroying the house, spending all our money on lawyers and kill each other". An irrational, emotional, greedy or terribly insecure person would say "You? Leaving me ? How could you?! You FUCKER! I'LL RUIN YOU!!! AAAARGGGGGHHHH!!!!!"

You've got your roles exactly inverted here. The UK left screaming, huffing and smashing the door but apparently expecting the same benefits they enjoyed beforehand, as a rational person the EU would have no reason whatsoever to entertain that behaviour let alone reward it. The EU has no rational reason to be especially sweet on the UK, and looking internally and at the future it can't even be seen as that as it woul…

Well, yes, I guess being mean is rational, and being nice irrational.
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