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Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

latimes.com

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Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#201

Post by joezydeco »

martin_bech wrote: post #118
bri3d wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From watching a few friends own Teslas, it seems that they offer a superior repair and maintenance experience to many German car dealers, which helps with owner satisfaction in the face of reliability issues. It certainly doesn't bode well for Tesla's attempt to move to high-volume, lower-margin production, though.

As a Tesla Model S owner, and former BMW owner, I can say without a doubt that the german build quality (BMW, Mercedes, Audi) is superior to Tesla. However driving a Tesla feels like having the first iPhone, and everyone else is driving around in Nokias. The Mercedes S class does however come close, in my opinion.

I've never known a VW owner that has not had electrical problems within the first 5 years of ownership. Just my own data point.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#202

Post by ams6110 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #185
ansible wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My current car is 14 years old. My previous two reached 16 and 17 years. I try to run then as long as possible because cars are money sinks.

The future won't be like the past. I don't expect to own a car 8 years from now in any scenario (electric self driving cars on demand). Owning a vehicle just seems like such a waste, so much capital tied up in something that sits around all day. Could you imagine airlines that let aircraft sit idle 95% of the time?

There won't be any self-driving on-demand cars in 8 years. Maybe 28.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#203

Post by dragontamer »

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #187
dragontamer wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/power/10-kw-home-sta... You can get 10kW of power from a Gas generator for $3000 (hooked up to a Propane fuel tank... or to a gas line if you trust those). A 500 gallon propane tank will keep you running virtually indefinitely, and will only cost a few thousand after installation costs. So you're realistically looking at $5k to $6k for a gas generator solution for a lot of peop…

The Tesla website says the $3500 battery is 10 kWh. Anyway, the prices will undoubtedly come down over time. Competition from China, etc.

kWh is energy storage. I'm talking about kW: kilowatts. Tesla's batteries can only output 2kW.

This means that the PowerWall can't even supply a typical 3-ton air conditioner (which uses up 3500Watts of power).

Lets just look at your typical appliances: your air conditioning is on (3.5kW starting, 2kW running), your refrigerator turns on (1200W starting, 200W running), and then the Sump Pump started to go (2kW starting, 1500W continuous).

Just preventing your food from spoiling and your basement from flooding is going to require TWO powerwalls before the inefficiencies of an inverter.

I'm not even talking about capacity (kWh). I'm simply talking about the amount of power the Tesla batteries are rated for. 2kW (3.3kW peak)

--------

> Anyway, the prices will undoubtedly come down over time. Competition from China, etc.

On the contrary. It looks like Tesla is trying to loss-lead on batteries to help scale up their Gigafactory. Tesla is assuming the cost will come down already, and is burning cash until it happens.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#204

Post by macNchz »

secabeen wrote: post #138
macNchz wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say your expectations around car ownership are significantly out of line with a typical car buyer or someone who may be reading Consumer Reports. I don't think most people buying cars have any real expectation about communication or any relationship with the manufacturer of their car, and having the drivetrain replaced twice would seemingly be a dealbreaker in terms of brand loyalty for a great many car owners. O…

Out of curiosity, why would a drivetrain replacement be a dealbreaker? The replacement is usually a one or two day job in the service center, and they give you a loaner Tesla while they have it. Why do you care if they pre-emptively replace your drivetrain?

Any sort of repeated major problem with an essentially brand new car would be a dealbreaker to many people because it's so rare with most modern cars. It's an inconvenience in day-to day-life caused by something you paid a premium on to buy new, and it's an indication that once the warranty runs out, you're stuck with potentially expensive repairs. Even if you don't intend to keep the car, reliability problems hurt the resale value.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#205

Post by [deleted] »

ams6110 wrote: post #202
toomuchtodo wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The future won't be like the past. I don't expect to own a car 8 years from now in any scenario (electric self driving cars on demand). Owning a vehicle just seems like such a waste, so much capital tied up in something that sits around all day. Could you imagine airlines that let aircraft sit idle 95% of the time?

There won't be any self-driving on-demand cars in 8 years. Maybe 28.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#206

Post by stonemetal »

dragontamer wrote: post #166
encoderer wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Home solar is more valuable with an attached battery. Without it, most setups as sold will shutoff if your home loses grid power. A battery is not the only way to solve this but it's the best solution if you can afford it.

But that's not what people use Solar Panels for. They use Solar Panels to reduce (or even negate) electricity costs. Spending tens of thousands of dollars on batteries that only last a few hours when grid-power is lost is not a luxury the typical person can afford. But solar panels that are cheaper (and provide revenue through net-metering) will revolutionize the energy industry. The average homeowner uses 30 kW-hrs…

And if a crazy hurricane "Sandy" situation occurs again, you can always go out to the local gas station to grab more gasoline for day 8, day 9, or day 11 without power.

During Sandy 80% of New Jersey gas stations were closed, so no you couldn't just run to the local gas station for a top off. Batteries + solar aren't going to power your whole house through Sandy but it will keep a minimal power level indefinitely so you can charge your phone, run your fridge, and perhaps have a night light to read by. Though I have to agree I don't see the point of giant batteries outside of a doomsday prepper strategy. It is much easier and cheaper to just draw power from the grid at night.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#207

Post by csours »

zeckalpha wrote: post #200
Lightbody wrote: post #20

I got my P85 in July 2013 and I can absolutely confirm what Consumer Reports is saying. My car has (and continues) to have all sorts of small fit-and-finish issues. While I've never had a drivetrain issue or any major problem, I have had some wireless and door handle issues that required as new Master Control Unit. Sadly, the work replacing the MCU introduced even more squeaks in the dashboard area :( That all said:…

Is it possible that quieter cars (without combustion engines) simply seem squeakier?

One of the trappings of luxury is a quiet cabin. If you're driving a nice car (that's not a sports car) you won't hear the engine. This used to be advertised heavily before it became standard on most decent cars.

I think the squeaks /u/Lightbody is describing are related to repairs, which are absolutely the last thing you want to do to a car, especially dash, headliner, doors, large non-mechanical areas.

Another trapping of high quality cars is fit and finish, which include things like smoothness of edges and gaps, flushness, door closing effort, paint quality, etc.

If you look at things like the edges of Tesla's components and the width of the gaps between doors, they are poor compared to (other) luxury cars. [1]

To be sure, I do think Teslas have AMAZING features, like handling and acceleration, but they do show their youth in fit and finish.

1. http://my.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/fit-and-finish-odditi...

Disclaimer - I work for GM, but this is my personal opinion only. I honestly am glad that Tesla is providing stiff competition that spurs innovation.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#209

Post by TeMPOraL »

avn2109 wrote: post #199
oldmanjay wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to ruin your day, but they're taking away your knobs, dials, and control of the vehicle.

Honestly I might not mind being unable to control the vehicle as long as I could adjust the temperature with a hardware control.

I think the endgame of a car is an artificial womb - moving you around, self-adjusting for maximum personal comfort - but with you being the one that tells it where to go.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#210

Post by TeMPOraL »

jegutman wrote: post #115
Zelphyr wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I no longer consume mainstream media news. They ALL have an agenda and that is either to scare you or make you angry. And they obviously don't care about lying by omission in order to garner views.

The scare people is bad, and immediately feels like worse reporting than the "makes you angry kind", but in the long run I'm much more concerned by the trend of news consumption heading towards the "makes me angry" kind. It can't be good for overall mental health.

It can't be good for the health of society either. All those little anger-inducing tweaks add up, shaping national sentiments and thus voting patterns.
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