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Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

latimes.com

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Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#161

Post by [deleted] »

Spooky23 wrote: post #136
toddmorey wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear you, but it's important to note that it appears that Mercedes (a storied German luxury car with proven technology) currently has an even a lower reliability rating. That makes me think it's likely more than just company age and experience, I think there is something about a company's risk tolerance and how it relates to their eagerness to implement new tech. As the article states, the blander "appliance-like"…

Mercedes isn't a car you buy for reliability, and the core market are people who want to be seen driving Mercedes -- most of whom lease, because who wants to be seen driving an old car. So yeah, they aren't Honda Accords. A friend had a "hanger queen" S class that was in the shop for 3 months in its first year. When the car itself is good, electronic doodads are supremely unreliable as well, reflecting poor reliabili…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#162

Post by sharkweek »

Htsthbjig wrote: post #131

After you drive a Tesla, you feel everything else is outdated. Today I drove a conventional car and it just feels so clunky and slow. On the other hand, I prefer a normal key for opening my car, a simple, proven tech that works. Tesla has all those "someone had this idea and incorporated it in the car" that is typical of startups. Everything has to be new and this makes reliability suffer in little stupid things, the…

Not that I can afford a Tesla anyways, but... I really like my old Toyota 4runner for the same reason you like a traditional key.

I like being able to open it up and follow very clear mechanics while generally understanding what I'm looking at.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#163

Post by [deleted] »

anxman wrote: post #119
vesrah wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right there with you. <3000mi on the car and the drive unit needed to be replaced, the front left strut area makes a popping when turning the wheel, and I can hear something flapping while driving.

My 2013 P85 was in for service 4 times before the alignment was fixed correctly. Sticky sunroof. Rattles. 12v battery failure causing full system failure. Motor replacement. Charge port battery broke. 2014 P85D: Total vehicle failure at 218 miles on the odometer. Front motor replaced. Rear motor milling failure. Rear motor replacement again as part incompatible with Autopilot. That all being said, the service is pain…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#164

Post by encoderer »

dragontamer wrote: post #150
crabasa wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that Telsa is competing with utilities to store energy at scale . I meant storing energy for personal use (vehicles/homes/etc). They will certainly source all of their energy from said utility companies.

The large scale energy use projects are leveraged by personal users however. If you have net-metering, then you sell your energy back to the grid. I mean, California's energy situation sucks (and will continue to suck until they build some large-scale energy storage solutions). But the majority of the country can just use net-metering... sell the energy back to the grid and get all the benefits of stored energy witho…

Home solar is more valuable with an attached battery. Without it, most setups as sold will shutoff if your home loses grid power. A battery is not the only way to solve this but it's the best solution if you can afford it.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#166

Post by dragontamer »

encoderer wrote: post #164
dragontamer wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The large scale energy use projects are leveraged by personal users however. If you have net-metering, then you sell your energy back to the grid. I mean, California's energy situation sucks (and will continue to suck until they build some large-scale energy storage solutions). But the majority of the country can just use net-metering... sell the energy back to the grid and get all the benefits of stored energy witho…

Home solar is more valuable with an attached battery. Without it, most setups as sold will shutoff if your home loses grid power. A battery is not the only way to solve this but it's the best solution if you can afford it.

But that's not what people use Solar Panels for. They use Solar Panels to reduce (or even negate) electricity costs.

Spending tens of thousands of dollars on batteries that only last a few hours when grid-power is lost is not a luxury the typical person can afford. But solar panels that are cheaper (and provide revenue through net-metering) will revolutionize the energy industry.

The average homeowner uses 30 kW-hrs of electricity a day. So... what, three Power-Walls per day of backup energy for $10k + installation costs + inverter costs? With a power output of only 2kW? This is going to cost maybe 20k or 30k for a solution that gives you power for more than a day.

In contrast, a simple gasoline generator will get you 5kW of power (6kW peak) and run for as long as you have gasoline. This crazy solution costs like $600 from Home Depo... and has several decades of experience to prove its effectiveness.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Powermate-5-000-Watt-Gasoline-Pow...

Generator + Solar Panels is still looking a hell of a lot more practical than Solar Panels + Battery. $50 of gasoline is going to run you ~25 gallons, enough to last 2+ days without any power. And if a crazy hurricane "Sandy" situation occurs again, you can always go out to the local gas station to grab more gasoline for day 8, day 9, or day 11 without power.

I mean, seriously? 10kWh per PowerWall is laughably small.

----------

I mean, when do you lose power for extended periods of time? Answer: when major hurricanes or snowstorms hit. That's what. It isn't like your Solar Panels will work while they're completely covered in snow. You'll need the generator if you actually want reliable off-grid energy anyway.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#167

Post by jacquesm »

vacri wrote: post #156
Spooky23 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mercedes isn't a car you buy for reliability, and the core market are people who want to be seen driving Mercedes -- most of whom lease, because who wants to be seen driving an old car. So yeah, they aren't Honda Accords. A friend had a "hanger queen" S class that was in the shop for 3 months in its first year. When the car itself is good, electronic doodads are supremely unreliable as well, reflecting poor reliabili…

An old supervisor of mine was a Jaguar fan, and often bemoaned their reliability - "There are two days when you love your Jaguar: the day you buy it, and the day you sell it"

"The parts falling off this car are of the very finest British manufacture"

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#168

Post by guelo »

simonsarris wrote: post #6

As Consumer Reports suggests, this is totally understandable. Straight from CR: > The Tesla wasn’t the only high-performance vehicle that fell below average in reliability. Others include the BMW X5 and 5 Series, and the Chevrolet Corvette. > When automakers roll out new technology, be it infotainment, transmissions, or engine variations, it often has a deleterious effect on vehicle reliability. Tesla is not only the…

That's fine for today's Tesla customer but the analyst's point is that when they go up against the Leaf those customers are going to be a lot less forgiving.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#169

Post by robotcookies »

outworlder wrote: post #7

That is kinda expected. This is a new company after all, with new technology. What I didn't see in the article was: how are they handling the failures? It is one thing to have a car that's unreliable, but that you can then take to a dealer and get it back a couple of days after with everything fixed. It is another if you have to fight the company every step of the way to get it fixed or, even worse, pay for their mis…

Tesla was founded in 2003 and is now 12 years old. It is not a new company.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#170

Post by blisterpeanuts »

threeseed wrote: post #160
crabasa wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that Telsa is competing with utilities to store energy at scale . I meant storing energy for personal use (vehicles/homes/etc). They will certainly source all of their energy from said utility companies.

We've had energy storage devices for homes for a while now. It isn't exactly tearing up the market. Very few people are willing to pay the significant upfront cost for the benefit of ongoing but small reductions in power bills. And that is with government subsidies (at least in Australia). I don't see how Tesla's superior technology is going to affect the product proposition.

Similarly, we've had electric cars for a while, and we've had high end sports cars and sedans for quite a while, but Tesla came along and blew most of them out of the water. Except for range, which will be solved sooner or later, it's a stunning tour de force, especially coming from an American manufacturer.

I have faith that Elon Musk will also think of a way to disrupt the home energy storage market, which in my opinion scarcely exists anyway. People have clunky, loud generators for emergencies, and it's possible to get rechargeable batteries to store your solar power, but there's not really an elegant solution yet to the after-dark problem. A quiet, high capacity "home battery" such as Tesla is planning might just be the ticket.

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