Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

latimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 250 posts

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#71

Post by tdees40 »

beeboop wrote: post #69
tdees40 wrote: post #48

I had a conversation with a (recently-departed) Tesla mechanic the other day (who has had experience working with every other type of car), and he said, "I knew every Tesla owner in the tri-state area on a first-name basis. Everything breaks." He did say that it's getting better with the newer models.

Everything breaks on other cars, too. I am not really sure what you're getting at with this comment. A mechanic sees nothing but broken cars.

Maybe this wasn't clear in my earlier comment, but he has been a mechanic for lots of other types of cars, and he stated that the reliability was materially worse than other cars.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#72

Post by Overtonwindow »

kpwagner wrote: post #47
briandear wrote: post #36

I wonder how many CR editors shorter Tesla stock before this was published. It wouldn't even be considered insider trading. I don't really put much stock in CR, unfortunately, the markets did -- quite unfairly actually since most folks buying Teslas aren't doing comparison shopping using CR.

The number is zero. Any more than that would be a serious scandal--can't imagine that would be legal. Market manipulation is a pretty serious crime ever since the days of Jay Gould.

I'm not so sure, remember when it was perfectly legal for members of Congress and their staff to use information gained through their jobs to make stock purchases? I mean this was just a few years ago....

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#73

Post by maxerickson »

6stringmerc wrote: post #50
derekp7 wrote: post #11

Seeing as how the battery system is primarily what makes electric cars expensive, I really wish automakers would start delivering plugin hybrids that have, say 75 - 100 mile range on battery (to keep cost down), along with a very low horsepower gas engine. (Most plugin hybrids give you about 20 - 30 miles on battery). The way it would work: the battery would drive the front wheels, and you would use the battery for m…

As most of the responses will show, people aren't very fond of the idea. I like it, but replace internal combustion engine with a micro turbine and the opportunities for a "better" hybrid system are extensive.

I think people are skeptical that the trade offs made in the Volt are bad. A heavier Volt with less available power might not perform comfortably.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#74

Post by repsilat »

weinzierl wrote: post #38
encoderer wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla's PE in 2016 is forecasted over 130. For comparison bmw is under 10. Tesla is priced for perfection.

Probably not everyone knows what PE is (I didn't): The price to earnings ratio (PE Ratio) is the measure of the share price relative to the annual net income earned by the firm per share. PE ratio shows current investor demand for a company share. A high PE ratio generally indicates increased demand because investors anticipate earnings growth in the future. The PE ratio has units of years, which can be interpreted a…

The fact that it's net income is very important here -- Tesla are rapidly scaling up production, which means lots of capital investment with a view to increasing future revenues (and profits.)

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#75

Post by joosters »

awqrre wrote: post #65
pkorzeniewski wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't take the owner satisfaction ratings too seriously, people who buy Tesla cars are mostly rich enthusiasts of new technologies and will quietly deal with a lot of issues before starting to criticize the car. If someone doesn't care about the electric engine, there's really no reason to buy a Tesla - for the same price you can get a much more luxurious german car with proven technology. It's similar to people…

I don't know about all the other technology but the electric motor(s) should be much more reliable then the conventional combustion drivetrain

Eventually, yes. But internal combustion engines have a head start spanning decades of fixes and reliability improvements.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#76

Post by kpil »

beat wrote: post #23
encoderer wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla's PE in 2016 is forecasted over 130. For comparison bmw is under 10. Tesla is priced for perfection.

Tesla is a growth company that could be a giant. BMW is a stable old blue chip. Different market values entirely. At the individual car level, Tesla S is priced to match mid/high end sedans from BMW, Mercedes, and Audi, so that's the quality level they need to hit. And such quality isn't about reliability so much as fit and finish. Tesla is doing extremely well against very established competition in that regard.

Tesla is showing what a car can be - Excellent UX, a nontraditional but really nice drivetrain, a good UI for the secondary systems with frequent software upgrades, etc.

It's not hard to see the trend - it's been coming for the last 15 years at least. All drivetrains will be electric, and connected to a battery and optionally a range extender of some sort. The control panel will be all big screens and apps.

Meanwhile, the existing manufacturer are perfecting the ultimate gearbox. They are in at least partial denial now, but they will soon need to dismantle those investments and some others to stay alive. Ex, Audi that has kept a really complicated gearbox instead of doing what Mitsubishi did, using a fixed gear system and a serial hybrid approach.

(To be fair, they have nothing to gain from these changes, they just want to stay slightly better than the rest.)

The bet against them is that some of them will not be able to reinvent themselves and then wither out into obsolescence.

I think that this risk might not be fully included in the price right now.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#77

Post by adventured »

hugh4 wrote: post #62
ssharp wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Tesla is less priced for perfection and more priced for the future. Investors expect Tesla to eventually surpass companies like BMW, across the board for each model. By betting on Tesla, they're betting on Tesla being the dominating player in electric vehicles as well as electric vehicles dominating ICE vehicles in passenger categories. I also think the price includes things like their rapidly improving batte…

How rational is it to bet on Tesla continuing to dominate the electric car market once the electric car market becomes mainstream? There are much, much bigger players waiting on the sidelines for market conditions to change.

They do have a significant head-start over most competitors.

When companies like Porsche talk about launching their 'Tesla killer' - it's set for years into the future.

It's definitely not rational to think Tesla will dominate, as no company actually dominates the auto industry. Toyota arguably comes closest and they don't dominate, they have a modest market share compared to what traditionally dominate companies have.

Can they one day do $20 billion in sales and ~$1.5 billion in profit? Probably. That would justify their present valuation (they will very likely carry a higher valuation than most car companies, for the same reason companies like Google carry a higher valuation than IBM). The real problem for investors, is it may take eight to ten years to justify their present valuation.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#79

Post by vesrah »

Lightbody wrote: post #20

I got my P85 in July 2013 and I can absolutely confirm what Consumer Reports is saying. My car has (and continues) to have all sorts of small fit-and-finish issues. While I've never had a drivetrain issue or any major problem, I have had some wireless and door handle issues that required as new Master Control Unit. Sadly, the work replacing the MCU introduced even more squeaks in the dashboard area :( That all said:…

Right there with you. <3000mi on the car and the drive unit needed to be replaced, the front left strut area makes a popping when turning the wheel, and I can hear something flapping while driving.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#80

Post by stan_rogers »

pinkrooftop wrote: post #56
vhold wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also when you spend over $100,000 on a car you're less likely to want to diminish its status value and other peoples' perceptions of your choices by complaining about it.

Jaguar owners have been an exception before recent quality improvements

The forearm burn you got from manually lashing your valves was a point of pride. And when you complained about the Lucas electrics, you weren't really complaining about your Jaguar, were you?
Post reply on HN