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Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

latimes.com

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Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#181

Post by ansible »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #128
petersellers wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who typically drives cars outside of their warranty period, I don't understand the lack of concern about reliability after your 3rd drivetrain. I suppose if you are leasing the car that is one thing, but with that kind of warranty work I would be extremely hesitant to buy a used Tesla.

The Model S powertrain warranty is 8 years/infinite miles.

My current car is 14 years old. My previous two reached 16 and 17 years.

I try to run then as long as possible because cars are money sinks.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#182

Post by datashovel »

"automatically retractable door handles". Forgive me for being ignorant about this, but as soon as I read this (that not only it exists, but is a "signature feature") I couldn't help but wonder why...

Does anyone here know why such a feature would exist? Sure it makes one ooh and ahh when they're about to buy it, and probably the first few months after, but does anyone think if this feature does not perform perfectly, it could only possibly cause more buyer's remorse than anything else?

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#183

Post by vonklaus »

threeseed wrote: post #158
toddmorey wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear you, but it's important to note that it appears that Mercedes (a storied German luxury car with proven technology) currently has an even a lower reliability rating. That makes me think it's likely more than just company age and experience, I think there is something about a company's risk tolerance and how it relates to their eagerness to implement new tech. As the article states, the blander "appliance-like"…

> A reliability issue sucks, but much less so if it can be resolved pleasantly and quickly Much less so ? Nonsense. If a car is out of warranty and it continues to suffer from systemic reliability issues it is irrelevant how good the service is. You will still be significantly out of pocket and unable to sell the car on the used market.

Model S went into production in 2012[0] and has an infinite mile warranty for 8 years. These cars won't be out of warranty until 2020. It has no limit on owners and applies retroactively. Even tesla roadsters won't be out of warranty yet as they were produced in 08'. Given that there are about 2400 of them, most drivers won't pay out of pocket with a tesla for half a decade. The ones who bought roadsters are risk tolerant wealthy technophiles, who likely have repurchased Tesla cars. While I don't have data on that, if you pay over 100k for what was one of the first production electric vehicles from an unknown company and entrepreneur at the time, you have to be bullish on tech., the environment and have the funds to satiate your curiosity.

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S [1]http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/infinite-mile-warranty

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#184

Post by to3m »

agumonkey wrote: post #139
Lightbody wrote: post #20

I got my P85 in July 2013 and I can absolutely confirm what Consumer Reports is saying. My car has (and continues) to have all sorts of small fit-and-finish issues. While I've never had a drivetrain issue or any major problem, I have had some wireless and door handle issues that required as new Master Control Unit. Sadly, the work replacing the MCU introduced even more squeaks in the dashboard area :( That all said:…

I suspect other high end brands don't have fit-and-finish issues, but is it true or just brand distortion field ? any actual bmw / mercedes owner ?

My mother's 2015 BMW 320d has needed to go back to the garage at 6 months old to have its sunroof replaced. A BMW 320d isn't especially high end, it's true - but I imagine that (aside from the engine...) it consists of mostly the same parts as something fancier like a BMW 335i or 335d.

My dad's 2011 BMW 640i, probably closer to the Tesla in terms of price point, seems to have been trouble free so far.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#185

Post by toomuchtodo »

ansible wrote: post #181
toomuchtodo wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Model S powertrain warranty is 8 years/infinite miles.

My current car is 14 years old. My previous two reached 16 and 17 years. I try to run then as long as possible because cars are money sinks.

The future won't be like the past. I don't expect to own a car 8 years from now in any scenario (electric self driving cars on demand).

Owning a vehicle just seems like such a waste, so much capital tied up in something that sits around all day. Could you imagine airlines that let aircraft sit idle 95% of the time?

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#186

Post by swampthinker »

datashovel wrote: post #182

"automatically retractable door handles". Forgive me for being ignorant about this, but as soon as I read this (that not only it exists, but is a "signature feature") I couldn't help but wonder why... Does anyone here know why such a feature would exist? Sure it makes one ooh and ahh when they're about to buy it, and probably the first few months after, but does anyone think if this feature does not perform perfectly…

Aerodynamics. Protruding handles are a source of drag, so it was eliminated.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#187

Post by blisterpeanuts »

dragontamer wrote: post #171
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similarly, we've had electric cars for a while, and we've had high end sports cars and sedans for quite a while, but Tesla came along and blew most of them out of the water. Except for range, which will be solved sooner or later, it's a stunning tour de force, especially coming from an American manufacturer. I have faith that Elon Musk will also think of a way to disrupt the home energy storage market, which in my op…

http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/power/10-kw-home-sta... You can get 10kW of power from a Gas generator for $3000 (hooked up to a Propane fuel tank... or to a gas line if you trust those). A 500 gallon propane tank will keep you running virtually indefinitely, and will only cost a few thousand after installation costs. So you're realistically looking at $5k to $6k for a gas generator solution for a lot of peop…

The Tesla website says the $3500 battery is 10 kWh.

Anyway, the prices will undoubtedly come down over time. Competition from China, etc.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#188

Post by toomuchtodo »

tdees40 wrote: post #71
beeboop wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything breaks on other cars, too. I am not really sure what you're getting at with this comment. A mechanic sees nothing but broken cars.

Maybe this wasn't clear in my earlier comment, but he has been a mechanic for lots of other types of cars, and he stated that the reliability was materially worse than other cars.

I think what people don't get is, A lot of Model S owners have no problem paying to be beta testers. Problems occur, but Tesla is fantastic about fixing them quickly through their service centers.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#189

Post by jkestner »

dragontamer wrote: post #113
jkestner wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget batteries. Rolls-Royce did well with jet engines, probably better than cars.

Except it is Panasonic who makes Tesla's cells. The "batteries" can't really be used for much else because they're so customized to the car. http://pop.h-cdn.co/assets/15/07/980x490/landscape_142375080... Tesla Home isn't doing too hot, as far as I can tell. Even SolarCity isn't recommending it to anybody... and SolarCity is Elon's baby as well!

Panasonic may make the general-purpose cells, but that doesn't mean that Tesla can't add value by making them more suitable for the EV market. In fact, it does sell components to other car companies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Motors#Technology

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#190

Post by foobarian »

secabeen wrote: post #138
macNchz wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say your expectations around car ownership are significantly out of line with a typical car buyer or someone who may be reading Consumer Reports. I don't think most people buying cars have any real expectation about communication or any relationship with the manufacturer of their car, and having the drivetrain replaced twice would seemingly be a dealbreaker in terms of brand loyalty for a great many car owners. O…

Out of curiosity, why would a drivetrain replacement be a dealbreaker? The replacement is usually a one or two day job in the service center, and they give you a loaner Tesla while they have it. Why do you care if they pre-emptively replace your drivetrain?

It's hard to gauge how widespread these failures are if only people who had problems report in. My anecdata point is that my 2014 Ford had no issues whatsoever and I would find it extremely annoying if I had to waste time driving to/from service centers for things that most modern cars haven't been failing at for years. Even more so if I paid as much as the Teslas cost.
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