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Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

latimes.com

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Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#111

Post by ghancock »

gergles wrote: post #66
achamayou wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It absolutely would be considered insider trading, as this report before its publication clearly falls under the definition of Material Non-Public Information, ie. any information that could reasonably be expected to affect the price of a security, and that hasn't been published yet.

You need a 'duty of trust' to a company to be an insider for IT purposes. There is 0 way a CR writer would have that.

A CR writer would absolutely have duties to CR. See https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/484/19 for an example of a journalist who was convicted in such a situation.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#112

Post by VLM »

jkestner wrote: post #87
tdees40 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla' market cap is $30B. GM is $53B. Ford is $61B. If you're buying Tesla, you have to believe that they will become a huge player, and soon. They can't just be bigger, they have to be huge or else you're radically overpaying for a niche producer.

Don't forget batteries. Rolls-Royce did well with jet engines, probably better than cars.

Agreed and don't forget licensing. OK so TSLA makes squeeky sunroofs, who cares, they can sell batteries and controllers and motors to ... construction crane companies or something. You know all the weird details of making a tow truck, cool, here's the parts to make it electric.

Happens all the time in the automotive industry. The first "american" hatchback car I ever drove had a nice VW engine. Ironically it was something to do with low emissions.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#113

Post by dragontamer »

jkestner wrote: post #87
tdees40 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla' market cap is $30B. GM is $53B. Ford is $61B. If you're buying Tesla, you have to believe that they will become a huge player, and soon. They can't just be bigger, they have to be huge or else you're radically overpaying for a niche producer.

Don't forget batteries. Rolls-Royce did well with jet engines, probably better than cars.

Except it is Panasonic who makes Tesla's cells. The "batteries" can't really be used for much else because they're so customized to the car.

http://pop.h-cdn.co/assets/15/07/980x490/landscape_142375080...

Tesla Home isn't doing too hot, as far as I can tell. Even SolarCity isn't recommending it to anybody... and SolarCity is Elon's baby as well!

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#114

Post by mikeyouse »

makomk wrote: post #92
awqrre wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about all the other technology but the electric motor(s) should be much more reliable then the conventional combustion drivetrain

Maybe, but the other parts that are failing - like the door handles, the sunroof, the center console, etc - are at least as complicated or more compared to conventional cars, because Tesla decided to add a bunch of fancy features to them. What's more, owners have been complaining that Tesla won't sell replacement parts to independent repairers and that they have to drive their car to an official service center and le…

Some family friends are acutely aware of this since they live in West Michigan and the nearest Tesla showroom is in Chicago.. 6hrs round trip to get your doors to open properly is stretching the limits of acceptable to even those people who are thrilled with the car the rest of the time.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#115

Post by jegutman »

Zelphyr wrote: post #83
aresant wrote: post #53

Interesting that this important line was omitted from the LATimes article: “Despite the problems, [CONSUMER REPORTS] data show that Tesla owner satisfaction is still very high: Ninety-seven percent of owners said they would definitely buy their car again." That is a direct quote from the CS article and featured in other prominent media. (1) I get that a negative CS article could potentially influence brand perception…

This is why I no longer consume mainstream media news. They ALL have an agenda and that is either to scare you or make you angry. And they obviously don't care about lying by omission in order to garner views.

The scare people is bad, and immediately feels like worse reporting than the "makes you angry kind", but in the long run I'm much more concerned by the trend of news consumption heading towards the "makes me angry" kind. It can't be good for overall mental health.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#116

Post by dragontamer »

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #102
crabasa wrote: post #85

Comparing Tesla to existing car companies misses the point entirely. Telsa is an energy platform company that is investing in delivering (Supercharger network) and storing (Gigafactory) energy. Cars are certainly the current "killer app" today, but are likely to be followed by many other applications in the future.

Yes, it's starting to look as though the cars are merely a shell for the very profitable batteries they're going to be cranking out in Nevada. Perhaps the whole Tesla car idea was a buyout play -- get established, build a name, then sell the whole thing to GM for $30 billion. Once the battery plant has economies of scale, they'll be fueling a whole new generation of electric vehicles by other makers, perhaps includin…

Except those uses of energy are better solved by Redox-flow batteries, Compressed Air Energy Storage (CAES), or pumped hydro.

http://energy.gov/oe/services/technology-development/energy-...

A single $5 Billion pumped-hydro plant can store 30 Gigawatt-hours of energy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_County_Pumped_Storage_Sta...

The energy demands of this country will be met by utility companies and their massive infrastructure projects. A few hundred MW-Hrs from Tesla is pretty small in the great scheme of utility energy storage.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#117

Post by r00fus »

bri3d wrote: post #42
pkorzeniewski wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't take the owner satisfaction ratings too seriously, people who buy Tesla cars are mostly rich enthusiasts of new technologies and will quietly deal with a lot of issues before starting to criticize the car. If someone doesn't care about the electric engine, there's really no reason to buy a Tesla - for the same price you can get a much more luxurious german car with proven technology. It's similar to people…

From watching a few friends own Teslas, it seems that they offer a superior repair and maintenance experience to many German car dealers, which helps with owner satisfaction in the face of reliability issues. It certainly doesn't bode well for Tesla's attempt to move to high-volume, lower-margin production, though.

Tesla is in Apple's position about 10-15 years ago. Apple had a solid product (a machine that ran OSX), a loyal fanbase, and great support ratings. They did eventually translate their brand value to mass-market dominance, but only through sidestepping into other markets using iPod and then iPhone.

I wonder if that analogy fits for Tesla?

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#118

Post by martin_bech »

bri3d wrote: post #42
pkorzeniewski wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't take the owner satisfaction ratings too seriously, people who buy Tesla cars are mostly rich enthusiasts of new technologies and will quietly deal with a lot of issues before starting to criticize the car. If someone doesn't care about the electric engine, there's really no reason to buy a Tesla - for the same price you can get a much more luxurious german car with proven technology. It's similar to people…

From watching a few friends own Teslas, it seems that they offer a superior repair and maintenance experience to many German car dealers, which helps with owner satisfaction in the face of reliability issues. It certainly doesn't bode well for Tesla's attempt to move to high-volume, lower-margin production, though.

As a Tesla Model S owner, and former BMW owner, I can say without a doubt that the german build quality (BMW, Mercedes, Audi) is superior to Tesla.

However driving a Tesla feels like having the first iPhone, and everyone else is driving around in Nokias. The Mercedes S class does however come close, in my opinion.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#119

Post by anxman »

vesrah wrote: post #79
Lightbody wrote: post #20

I got my P85 in July 2013 and I can absolutely confirm what Consumer Reports is saying. My car has (and continues) to have all sorts of small fit-and-finish issues. While I've never had a drivetrain issue or any major problem, I have had some wireless and door handle issues that required as new Master Control Unit. Sadly, the work replacing the MCU introduced even more squeaks in the dashboard area :( That all said:…

Right there with you. <3000mi on the car and the drive unit needed to be replaced, the front left strut area makes a popping when turning the wheel, and I can hear something flapping while driving.

My 2013 P85 was in for service 4 times before the alignment was fixed correctly. Sticky sunroof. Rattles. 12v battery failure causing full system failure. Motor replacement. Charge port battery broke.

2014 P85D: Total vehicle failure at 218 miles on the odometer. Front motor replaced. Rear motor milling failure. Rear motor replacement again as part incompatible with Autopilot.

That all being said, the service is painless and I still love my car. I'm not going back to BMW unless kicking and screaming.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#120

Post by _ea1k »

sliverstorm wrote: post #97
tdees40 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla' market cap is $30B. GM is $53B. Ford is $61B. If you're buying Tesla, you have to believe that they will become a huge player, and soon. They can't just be bigger, they have to be huge or else you're radically overpaying for a niche producer.

Well, be huge, or be smaller and maintain huge margins. That's also an avenue.

Exactly... it isn't that GM-style revenues are priced into the stock it is that much greater than GM-style margins are priced in.

Whether they will achieve that is a different (and still open) question.

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