Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#151

Post by anxman » Tue, Oct 20, 2015, 11:27 PM UTC

tempestn wrote: post #147

anxman wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My 2013 P85 was in for service 4 times before the alignment was fixed correctly. Sticky sunroof. Rattles. 12v battery failure causing full system failure. Motor replacement. Charge port battery broke. 2014 P85D: Total vehicle failure at 218 miles on the odometer. Front motor replaced. Rear motor milling failure. Rear motor replacement again as part incompatible with Autopilot. That all being said, the service is pain…

Painless if there's a service center nearby. This is all making me seriously reconsider buying one when I'd have to travel to get it serviced...

I do live very close to a service center and that certainly is a factor in my ownership. If I didn't live near an SC, I would opt for Ranger service.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#152

Post by calinet6 » Tue, Oct 20, 2015, 11:28 PM UTC

pkorzeniewski wrote: post #64

bri3d wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From watching a few friends own Teslas, it seems that they offer a superior repair and maintenance experience to many German car dealers, which helps with owner satisfaction in the face of reliability issues. It certainly doesn't bode well for Tesla's attempt to move to high-volume, lower-margin production, though.

Tesla has no other choice than to offer the best customer experience - otherwise they wouldn't stand a chance on the market as a new player. The question is how long will they keep it up?

This is really the wrong question. Offering the best customer experience should, looked at systemically (aka in the context of reality), be a return on investment. Looking at it any other way is simply incorrect.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#153

Post by tempestn » Tue, Oct 20, 2015, 11:29 PM UTC

6stringmerc wrote: post #68

cjensen wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your suggested configuration has very big downsides. Basically, your config would be an electric car which carries around a complete internal combustion engine, gas tank, and exhaust system just in case it runs out of battery. For simple commutes and around town, you'd be better off jettisoning the weight and cost and getting a slightly bigger battery. The hybrid car as originally conceived is genius: Small and effic…

Do you have an opinion on the Jaguar C-X75 concept? http://www.theengineer.co.uk/in-depth/analysis/jet-power-bla...

Wow, that looks really cool. Sadly it was going to be a million dollar car, and it was cancelled in 2012 after only 3 prototypes were built.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#154

Post by nickbauman » Tue, Oct 20, 2015, 11:32 PM UTC

toddmorey wrote: post #100

pkorzeniewski wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't take the owner satisfaction ratings too seriously, people who buy Tesla cars are mostly rich enthusiasts of new technologies and will quietly deal with a lot of issues before starting to criticize the car. If someone doesn't care about the electric engine, there's really no reason to buy a Tesla - for the same price you can get a much more luxurious german car with proven technology. It's similar to people…

I hear you, but it's important to note that it appears that Mercedes (a storied German luxury car with proven technology) currently has an even a lower reliability rating. That makes me think it's likely more than just company age and experience, I think there is something about a company's risk tolerance and how it relates to their eagerness to implement new tech. As the article states, the blander "appliance-like"…

Shocking as it is (since I write software for a living) I buy only used cars with as few options as possible. All manual transmission, locks, windows and doors. I don't even have A/C in one of my two cars. Owning a car in America is like a tax: you need a car to have a meaningful participation in the economy. So while I admire Tesla's technology, through this lens I can't imagine buying one in this lifetime.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#155

Post by toomuchtodo » Tue, Oct 20, 2015, 11:33 PM UTC

macNchz wrote: post #132

brianstorms wrote: post #82

My 2013 Model S has had its share of issues. My car is on its third drivetrain. Am I unhappy about it? Nope. Was it a hassle? A little. Was it a show-stopper? Nope. Did Tesla always take care of the issues to my satisfaction? Absolutely. Would I buy another Tesla? Not only YES but I cannot imagine ever buying anything else ever again. Tesla's huge weakness continues to be communication between company and customer. T…

I'd say your expectations around car ownership are significantly out of line with a typical car buyer or someone who may be reading Consumer Reports. I don't think most people buying cars have any real expectation about communication or any relationship with the manufacturer of their car, and having the drivetrain replaced twice would seemingly be a dealbreaker in terms of brand loyalty for a great many car owners. O…

I don't see the problem. Early adopters are shaking out the bugs in the Model S and the Model X. If Tesla adopts the Uber model, you're never going to care if the car has problems, it'll be Tesla's problems.

All of this hand wringing assumes car ownership is going to continue as it has in the past. I'd say the tea leaves are showing something different with self driving cars advancing as quickly as they are.

Tesla Model:

* Sell expensive cars to people who are rabid enthusiasts.

* Hustle hard to get Superchargers and Gigafactory done (funded by expensive cars from step 1)

* Perfect autopilot/autonomous systems

* Sell Model 3 to those who want to buy it, rent by the mile to those who don't want to buy

* Profit hard.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#156

Post by vacri » Tue, Oct 20, 2015, 11:34 PM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #136

toddmorey wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear you, but it's important to note that it appears that Mercedes (a storied German luxury car with proven technology) currently has an even a lower reliability rating. That makes me think it's likely more than just company age and experience, I think there is something about a company's risk tolerance and how it relates to their eagerness to implement new tech. As the article states, the blander "appliance-like"…

Mercedes isn't a car you buy for reliability, and the core market are people who want to be seen driving Mercedes -- most of whom lease, because who wants to be seen driving an old car. So yeah, they aren't Honda Accords. A friend had a "hanger queen" S class that was in the shop for 3 months in its first year. When the car itself is good, electronic doodads are supremely unreliable as well, reflecting poor reliabili…

An old supervisor of mine was a Jaguar fan, and often bemoaned their reliability - "There are two days when you love your Jaguar: the day you buy it, and the day you sell it"

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#157

Post by nickbauman » Tue, Oct 20, 2015, 11:41 PM UTC

simonsarris wrote: post #6

As Consumer Reports suggests, this is totally understandable. Straight from CR: > The Tesla wasn’t the only high-performance vehicle that fell below average in reliability. Others include the BMW X5 and 5 Series, and the Chevrolet Corvette. > When automakers roll out new technology, be it infotainment, transmissions, or engine variations, it often has a deleterious effect on vehicle reliability. Tesla is not only the…

Harley Davidson has a rabid fan base that defies logic far more than Tesla's. Most Harleys price 40% higher than better, faster and safer motorcycles out there, they use stamped steel parts where other makers use aircraft-grade aluminum, their engines haven't meaningfully changed since WWII (their first liquid cooled engines were just hitting the market a few years ago). It's branding. Tesla is much closer to delivering the "real thing". They will succeed, I think.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#158

Post by threeseed » Tue, Oct 20, 2015, 11:42 PM UTC

toddmorey wrote: post #100

pkorzeniewski wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't take the owner satisfaction ratings too seriously, people who buy Tesla cars are mostly rich enthusiasts of new technologies and will quietly deal with a lot of issues before starting to criticize the car. If someone doesn't care about the electric engine, there's really no reason to buy a Tesla - for the same price you can get a much more luxurious german car with proven technology. It's similar to people…

I hear you, but it's important to note that it appears that Mercedes (a storied German luxury car with proven technology) currently has an even a lower reliability rating. That makes me think it's likely more than just company age and experience, I think there is something about a company's risk tolerance and how it relates to their eagerness to implement new tech. As the article states, the blander "appliance-like"…

> A reliability issue sucks, but much less so if it can be resolved pleasantly and quickly

Much less so ? Nonsense.

If a car is out of warranty and it continues to suffer from systemic reliability issues it is irrelevant how good the service is. You will still be significantly out of pocket and unable to sell the car on the used market.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#159

Post by threeseed » Tue, Oct 20, 2015, 11:44 PM UTC

martin_bech wrote: post #118

bri3d wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From watching a few friends own Teslas, it seems that they offer a superior repair and maintenance experience to many German car dealers, which helps with owner satisfaction in the face of reliability issues. It certainly doesn't bode well for Tesla's attempt to move to high-volume, lower-margin production, though.

As a Tesla Model S owner, and former BMW owner, I can say without a doubt that the german build quality (BMW, Mercedes, Audi) is superior to Tesla. However driving a Tesla feels like having the first iPhone, and everyone else is driving around in Nokias. The Mercedes S class does however come close, in my opinion.

> However driving a Tesla feels like having the first iPhone, and everyone else is driving around in Nokias.

Weird I find the opposite compared to my Porsche Macan or my girlfriends Evoque.

The interior build quality is extremely poor on the Tesla and the giant screen looks tacky and difficult to use whilst driving.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#160

Post by threeseed » Tue, Oct 20, 2015, 11:54 PM UTC

crabasa wrote: post #122

dragontamer wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except those uses of energy are better solved by Redox-flow batteries, Compressed Air Energy Storage (CAES), or pumped hydro. http://energy.gov/oe/services/technology-development/energy-... A single $5 Billion pumped-hydro plant can store 30 Gigawatt-hours of energy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_County_Pumped_Storage_Sta... The energy demands of this country will be met by utility companies and their massive in…

I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that Telsa is competing with utilities to store energy at scale . I meant storing energy for personal use (vehicles/homes/etc). They will certainly source all of their energy from said utility companies.

We've had energy storage devices for homes for a while now.

It isn't exactly tearing up the market. Very few people are willing to pay the significant upfront cost for the benefit of ongoing but small reductions in power bills. And that is with government subsidies (at least in Australia).

I don't see how Tesla's superior technology is going to affect the product proposition.