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Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

reuters.com

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Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#821

Post by summerlight »

elefanten wrote: post #695
Dma54rhs wrote: post #677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's depressing that even on hackernews where you expect people want to tinker and have control over their machines there's a probably a majority who are happy with the situation and use the think of my grandma (aka children) using iPhone situation. There could be numerous ways for Apple to let people run their own software or other stores without giving your grandma malware.

Except as soon as it becomes a remotely feasible action (with simple instructions) for the general consumer, a bunch of businesses will start requiring their users to disable "default Grandma mode". Imagine onboarding for Netflix including a pleasantly designed screen saying "Before you can use Netflix, you must Enable Third-party Stores. Go to Settings > Privacy..." If that comes to pass, there will be no highly-gua…

> a bunch of businesses will start requiring their users to disable "default Grandma mode". Imagine onboarding for Netflix including a pleasantly designed screen saying "Before you can use Netflix, you must Enable Third-party Stores. Go to Settings > Privacy..."

In Android, Epic (and probably tens of ISP and carriers) actually tried that strategy and miserably failed.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#822

Post by leadingthenet »

echelon wrote: post #816
vbezhenar wrote: post #746

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty simple. Apple users don't want to spell it, so I will. They want Apple to have a strong market position, so Apple can dictate their conditions to everyone else. They like the fact that Apple can bend every developer out there including Facebook and Google, because access to Apple users is a luxury. They like the fact that Apple uses its position to benefit Apple users. Of course Apple uses its position to…

In a way, the Apple fans don't matter. The DOJ can fix this single-handedly and force Apple to open up. We need to speak up now more than ever. The heat against Apple is turning up, and with all this pressure and focus we can frame our argument with crystal clarity and make it LOUD . Tim Sweeny, DHH, and plenty of other luminaries are carrying this argument forward. We need to join them in unison.

Why, though?

Why does everything need to become like Android? Why can’t Apple and its users do their own thing? What’s with this Borg mentality HN has when it comes to Apple?

Assimilate or perish. I genuinely think it’s deep seated envy, frankly.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#823

Post by somehnrdr14726 »

dleslie wrote: post #406
somehnrdr14726 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marketing anxiety via social proofing has a long history, much older than computers. Beauty products, cleaning supplies, child safety gear, etc. Why limit the condemnation to virtual goods?

Beauty products, cleaning supplies and child safety gear are all examples of heavily regulated industries.

F2P regulations have advanced rapidly in Asian countries and since the games have global audiences, everyone worldwide is now "benefitting" from the regulation. Boot up a gacha game and it will have guaranteed reward schedules, clearly explained drop rates, and caps on spend.

Retail games have had a ratings body and seller restrictions by age for decades now.

Considering video games have such stringent regulations on their design, in ways that make the design cost-prohibitive to tailor for different geographies; and content-based sales restrictions around the globe - it's safe to say that games are heavily regulated as well.

Fortnite sells skins directly without blind boxes, which is as tame as virtual goods come. As it happens, none of their virtual goods come anywhere close to F2P regulations. You could have an equivalent moral panic about Twitch chat emojis.

I guess my point is, how much regulation will it take before Fortnite isn't preying on children anymore? Is uncapped spend the problem? Should we limit the other kid hobbies as well? There's really nothing forcing them to stop buying pokemon cards, or comic books, or TV episodes, or toys they see in commercials.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#824

Post by judge2020 »

wernercd wrote: post #804
enos_feedler wrote: post #795

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, imagine if you were Walmart and you've spent the past 25 years investing in your brand, real-estate, parking lots, buildings, advertising, signage, etc. Your goal is to build a thriving business for _your_ customers. A fertilizer company isn't happy with the placement they are getting in your stores, so they sue you and say you need to give them dedicated, premium space in the parking lot. They also think i…

The difference is plenty of companies can make storefronts - look at Steam vs GOG and all the other options for gaming on Windows. You act like companies wouldn't produce viable alternatives given the opportunity... and you act like Steam isn't better because of the competition. Apple is putting forced restrictions on their platform because they want to squeeze everyone who comes through their doors. Apple acts like…

Plenty of companies can make phones too, but it takes extreme time, effort, and talent to do so. It all depends on where you put the fertilizer - is the fertilizer company saying they should be able to set up a stall in the walmart parking lot, or are they saying Walmart is preventing them from setting up a store on their own land a hundred feet away from Walmart?

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#825

Post by mdoms »

katbyte wrote: post #553
colinmhayes wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine hating something so trivial that provides real tangible benefits so much.

it's not trivial? its multiple accounts and multiple things to install and juggle - not everyone has the latest and greatest computer. Not to mention are you 100% sure those stores and your purchases will continue to exist longer than steam ect? regardless, I hate it too but i really don't care, companies like EA and epic can do whatever they want and i just don't install or play games not on steam or the ps4 stores…

It's about as trivial as problems get.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#826

Post by leadingthenet »

setpatchaddress wrote: post #738
thereddaikon wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that you called it sideloading just shows how successful Apple has been in warping people's perception of it over the years. Installing the software you want on your compute device isn't sideloading. Its just installing software. Apple is aberration here not all of the users who just expect to actually own the products they buy.

Sideloading is Android terminology, isn't it? What does that have to do with Apple?

Nothing, this is a religious crusade, and facts don’t matter.

Apple needs to be tarred and feathered for its sins of taking a different path to the rest of the industry.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#827

Post by enos_feedler »

HotHotLava wrote: post #819
enos_feedler wrote: post #795

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, imagine if you were Walmart and you've spent the past 25 years investing in your brand, real-estate, parking lots, buildings, advertising, signage, etc. Your goal is to build a thriving business for _your_ customers. A fertilizer company isn't happy with the placement they are getting in your stores, so they sue you and say you need to give them dedicated, premium space in the parking lot. They also think i…

It sounds ridiculous because the analogy is really far-fetched. A slightly better one would be that the owner of Walmart is also the mayor of the town, and he won't approve the business permit for the fertilizer store unless they agree to also sell their stuff at Walmart.

In the analogy, Apple is Walmart. Could you explain what it means for Apple to be "mayor of the town"? Apple is not the mayor of any metaphorical town. They own a business.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#828

Post by enos_feedler »

judge2020 wrote: post #824
wernercd wrote: post #804

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is plenty of companies can make storefronts - look at Steam vs GOG and all the other options for gaming on Windows. You act like companies wouldn't produce viable alternatives given the opportunity... and you act like Steam isn't better because of the competition. Apple is putting forced restrictions on their platform because they want to squeeze everyone who comes through their doors. Apple acts like…

Plenty of companies can make phones too, but it takes extreme time, effort, and talent to do so. It all depends on where you put the fertilizer - is the fertilizer company saying they should be able to set up a stall in the walmart parking lot, or are they saying Walmart is preventing them from setting up a store on their own land a hundred feet away from Walmart?

I am saying Walmart is preventing the fertilizer stall on their own property. The iPhone hardware, OS and platform is the property of Apple, just like the parking lot is property of Walmart. But actually, I am not even saying Walmart is preventing this. I am just saying Walmart won't hand them this opportunity for free. The result is the fertilizer company suing Walmart.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#829

Post by judge2020 »

count wrote: post #784
jimnotgym wrote: post #754

If a locked down app store is necessary for say safety, perhaps a good analogue is a water utility company. A water company has a monopoly in an area, due to the impractical nature of duplicate infrastructure. However, in return it may be heavily regulated in terms of its safety and pricing. If you have to have a single app store then their prices should be regulated, and crucially there should be proper recourse for…

A better analogue is cars. You can't install anything unapproved by Lexus on a Lexus system. But you can buy a different car, and get different software and apps.

The difference depends on if you are talking about what is legal (eg right to repair) or what is possible by the consumer without modification. Legally you can do whatever you want since you own the hardware - but in both Apple’s case and Lexus’ case, installing a non-OEM part will void the warranty on that part, or in Apple’s case, the entire kernel since you’re modifying that kernel (although it’s easy to factory reset an iOS device and remove the modification without a trace).

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#830

Post by kingsleyopara »

ryandrake wrote: post #469
efdee wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no choice being taken away - you don't have a choice at this point - you must use "the" App Store whether you like it or not. Maybe the Apple App Store can get it's shit together and present a less hostile environment so these companies are able/willing to distribute on the Apple App Store again, and then you'll actually have a choice.

In both cases, I as the user, have no choice: 1. Apple wins = I have no choice but to use the app store. 2. Epic wins = I have no choice but to install multiple different app stores to run many different apps.

I'd argue you have less choice if Epic wins as you as the user no longer have the choice to choose a walled garden (iOS) vs open platform (Android).
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